From vincen21 at msu.edu Thu Jul 1 03:56:53 2004 From: vincen21 at msu.edu (Jolyon Michael Vincent) Date: Thu Jul 1 03:56:55 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Re: GLLUG tips In-Reply-To: <20040629173823.3953.qmail@web20708.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040629173823.3953.qmail@web20708.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Seth Seger writes: > Thanks, everyone, for the info! Yes, talking about > recompiling the kernel did freak me out, but it was > interesting info anyway. I'll consider all your tips > and see what I can do! > If your feeling tipsy, drop a quarter into my paypal account! If you don't have a paypal account yet, use my email address (this one) as your referral addy and you can get $5 for having me refer you! pretty good deal, for new signups. From plhofmei at antiochcomputerconsulting.com Thu Jul 1 08:30:35 2004 From: plhofmei at antiochcomputerconsulting.com (Phillip Hofmeister) Date: Thu Jul 1 08:30:38 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] GLLUG In-Reply-To: <200406302251.i5UMpGq18765@anon.securenym.net> References: <20040629173823.3953.qmail@web20708.mail.yahoo.com> <1088531571.16149.11.camel@lx1.armintl.com> <1088604229.312.154.camel@hurakan.cl.msu.edu> <200406302251.i5UMpGq18765@anon.securenym.net> Message-ID: <20040701123034.GB1209@antiochcomputerconsulting.com> On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 at 05:50:07PM -0400, C. Ulrich wrote: > But this is a *good* thing. For starters, it's easy and it works. Every > single time I've tried to upgrade a Linux distro to a new version, it > either failed, left he machine unusable, or mucked the system up bad > enough that it wasn't worth salvaging. With FreeBSD, if you follow the > instructions and know what you're doing, your upgrade will almost > certainly succeed. Knowing what you're doing is easy, too, since FreeBSD > is very very well documented. *cough* Debian *cough*. I have NEVER had a botched Debian upgrade. They test things down pretty damn well. > There are some bonuses to this method as well: both your kernel and > userland can be compiled with flags to optimize for your exact system > and it's extremely easy to build the operating system on a fast machine > and then install the resulting kernel and binaries on a slower one. Optimization doesn't give you *THAT* much an edge from many benchmarks I have read, although I am thinking about looking at gentoo for fun (not that I would ever use it on a production system...too unstable (versions are always changing)). Be well, -- Phillip Hofmeister PGP/GPG Key: http://www.zionlth.org/~plhofmei/ wget -O - http://www.zionlth.org/~plhofmei/key.asc | gpg --import From harris41 at msu.edu Thu Jul 1 09:27:37 2004 From: harris41 at msu.edu (Scott Harrison) Date: Thu Jul 1 09:27:43 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] cheap cd-rw drives In-Reply-To: <200406300259.i5U2xFw18741@anon.securenym.net> References: <200406231536.i5NFaqID020933@egr.msu.edu> <200406300259.i5U2xFw18741@anon.securenym.net> Message-ID: <40E41149.1040309@msu.edu> >This thread's probably a few days old by now, but... > > > I'm trying to decide between windows and linux. Any ideas or suggestions out there? . . . (tries to start another long thread... :) :) :D ) From PMelson at sequoianet.com Thu Jul 1 09:43:01 2004 From: PMelson at sequoianet.com (Melson, Paul) Date: Thu Jul 1 09:44:10 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] cheap cd-rw drives Message-ID: <0FD9D979B9535D4890AE309799B6D1E5883971@lansingemail.seqnt.com> A long thread or a flame war? I guess I'd say that if you can't decide, you don't have to - run both. Dual-boot with GRUB is the way to go. PaulM > -----Original Message----- > I'm trying to decide between windows and linux. > Any ideas or suggestions out there? > > . > . > . > > (tries to start another long thread... :) :) :D ) From harris41 at msu.edu Thu Jul 1 09:57:29 2004 From: harris41 at msu.edu (Scott Harrison) Date: Thu Jul 1 09:57:36 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] cheap cd-rw drives In-Reply-To: <0FD9D979B9535D4890AE309799B6D1E5883971@lansingemail.seqnt.com> References: <0FD9D979B9535D4890AE309799B6D1E5883971@lansingemail.seqnt.com> Message-ID: <40E41849.1070000@msu.edu> I do dual boots on occasion, but I actually prefer kvm switches w/ 2+ cheap boxes. Reduces complexity (backups, reinstalls, upgrades) and if something hoses my windows box (like windows), I then have complete freedom to do whatever with it. Melson, Paul wrote: >A long thread or a flame war? > >I guess I'd say that if you can't decide, you don't have to - run both. >Dual-boot with GRUB is the way to go. > >PaulM > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>I'm trying to decide between windows and linux. >>Any ideas or suggestions out there? >> >>. >>. >>. >> >>(tries to start another long thread... :) :) :D ) >> > > > > From glowack2 at msu.edu Thu Jul 1 10:06:26 2004 From: glowack2 at msu.edu (Edward Glowacki) Date: Thu Jul 1 10:06:29 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] GLLUG In-Reply-To: <200406302251.i5UMpGq18765@anon.securenym.net> References: <20040629173823.3953.qmail@web20708.mail.yahoo.com> <1088531571.16149.11.camel@lx1.armintl.com> <1088604229.312.154.camel@hurakan.cl.msu.edu> <200406302251.i5UMpGq18765@anon.securenym.net> Message-ID: <1088690786.312.206.camel@hurakan.cl.msu.edu> On Wed, 2004-06-30 at 17:50, C. Ulrich wrote: > For starters, it's easy and it works. It works, if you have a printout of the "how to upgrade" document handy and reference it continuously. But I wouldn't say it's at all as easy as it could be. And the less-easy it is, the less often people will do it. For me, the biggest pain in rebuilding the core of the OS is the final step: mergemaster. For those that don't know, it's a script that goes through your /etc/ directory and tries to upgrade all the OS-installed config files there, giving you the option to just install the new version or try to merge the old and new if you've made changes to the defaults. It asks you, one at a time, what to do with each file, and it takes a lot of focus to keep track of what's going on. Because this is such a tedious step, I only do upgrades when I really have to. > With FreeBSD, if you follow the > instructions and know what you're doing, your upgrade will almost > certainly succeed. Knowing what you're doing is easy, too, since FreeBSD > is very very well documented. Those are two pretty big "if's"... and while the documentation is pretty *good*, it and the procedure itself aren't particularly *newbie friendly*. Or for that matter, "sysadmin under stress and in a hurry" friendly. A big part of making things easier is not just for newbies, but people that *could* do it but have better things to do with their time. > The ease and reliability with which FreeBSD can be updated far offsets > the disadvantage of having to wait for it to compile, in my opinion. Tell that to my GNOME upgrade... ;) The half-dozen dependency failures pushed my rebuild time to 3 days. Part of that was because it would fail while unattended and sit idle a while until I could fix the problem and start it again, which was sometimes the next day. Part was my relatively slow machine (PIII 750). No matter the reason, 3 days without a desktop or a GUI while you're upgrading is painful... =( And yes, I know that GNOME is essentially an application and not the OS, but since that line is pretty blurry in general and most systems handle them the same way, I'm not gonna stress over it... ;) Say what you will about Windows, but just having to click "OK" to upgrade the OS is a pretty handy feature (licensing changes, multiple reboots, and other Microsoft funny business aside). Compare that to: make buildworld make installworld make buildkernel shutdown make installkernel mergemaster fastboot It really all comes down to how much of the upgrade procedure requires sysadmin intervention or control. Do I need to be prompted to choose between the old and new versions of /etc/periodic/security/650.ip6fwlimit, or can the upgrade safely assume that 99.9% of the people in the world doing the upgrade don't care and just install the new version? (making a backup copy of the old version for the other 0.1%...) -ED -- Edward Glowacki glowack2@msu.edu GLLUG Peon http://www.gllug.org Imagination is the one weapon in the war against reality. -- Jules de Gaultier From spitzcor at cray.com Thu Jul 1 10:10:37 2004 From: spitzcor at cray.com (Cory Spitz) Date: Thu Jul 1 10:10:45 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] cheap cd-rw drives In-Reply-To: <40E41149.1040309@msu.edu> References: <200406231536.i5NFaqID020933@egr.msu.edu> <200406300259.i5U2xFw18741@anon.securenym.net> <40E41149.1040309@msu.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Jul 2004, Scott Harrison wrote: > > I'm trying to decide between windows and linux. > Any ideas or suggestions out there? > Let me get this straight. You're asking a LUG whether you should run Windows or Linux? You're a funny guy :) But seriously, it would help if you had some requirements. For instance, "I want a good, efficient desktop", or "I want to run a web server", or "I'm building a machine for my grandmother for email", or whatever. -Cory From glowack2 at msu.edu Thu Jul 1 10:41:24 2004 From: glowack2 at msu.edu (Edward Glowacki) Date: Thu Jul 1 10:41:27 2004 Subject: Windows vs. Linux (was: Re: [GLLUG] cheap cd-rw drives) In-Reply-To: <40E41149.1040309@msu.edu> References: <200406231536.i5NFaqID020933@egr.msu.edu> <200406300259.i5U2xFw18741@anon.securenym.net> <40E41149.1040309@msu.edu> Message-ID: <1088692884.312.242.camel@hurakan.cl.msu.edu> On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 09:27, Scott Harrison wrote: > I'm trying to decide between windows and linux. > Any ideas or suggestions out there? "I'm trying to buy a sharp object, any suggestions?" "Well, we sell chainsaws and scalpels. If you're a lumberjack, then I recommend a nice chainsaw." "What if I'm a brain surgeon?" "Um, well then I sure as hell ain't gonna sell you a chainsaw!" Some questions to ponder: 1. What are you going to use it for? 2. How well can you administer each of the OS's? Or how quickly can you learn? 3. What's your budget? 4. What's your hardware? My thoughts: 1. What are you going to use it for? Server: Linux or BSD, unless you specifically need to run something Microsoft (Active Directory, MS SQL, IIS, etc.). You have a better shot of being able to remotely administer Unix than Windows, and the core free server software applications (apache, samba, etc.) are all rock solid. With a little bit of work, you can tighten Unix down and then just let it run indefinitely, aside from occasional critical upgrades to fix security holes. General home desktop: Windows. Despite making great headway, the free desktops really struggle to compete with Windows in terms of consistency and polish. Plus there's a better assortment of time wasters (games) available. =) Web development: Windows, because you have to run IE to test your site. If you have another machine (even a slow one or one you only have periodic access to) that runs Windows, then you might go with Linux or BSD here so you can have all the relevant server apps running on your own machine for development/testing. (You can get apache/mysql/php for Windows by the way, there's a package out there that has everything you need. Look at http://www.hotscripts.com/PHP/Software_and_Servers/Installation_Kits/) 2. How well can you administer each of the OS's? Or how quickly can you learn? Whichever you can competently administer to keep up-to-date. Both Linux/BSD and Windows will give you plenty of rope to hang yourself with, so keep an eye out and keep your system patched. 3. What's your budget? Windows is obviously going to cost more. At the very least, there's the OS, and you should also make sure to get a virus scanner. Plus a higher percentage of the Windows software available costs money, shareware included. The good news is that a lot of the biggies (Mozilla, Open Office, apache/mysql/php, etc.) are cross-platform, so you can get most of your core functionality on either OS. 4. What's your hardware? If you've got modern hardware that can run Win XP, then either that or Linux/BSD is fine. The older the hardware, the more I'd lean toward Linux/BSD, and I wouldn't recommend running any version of Windows other that XP (or maybe 2003 server or whatever it is... avoid 95/98/Me/2000 at this point). -- Edward Glowacki glowack2@msu.edu GLLUG Peon http://www.gllug.org Imagination is the one weapon in the war against reality. -- Jules de Gaultier From PMelson at sequoianet.com Thu Jul 1 10:44:11 2004 From: PMelson at sequoianet.com (Melson, Paul) Date: Thu Jul 1 10:45:23 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] cheap cd-rw drives Message-ID: <0FD9D979B9535D4890AE309799B6D1E5883975@lansingemail.seqnt.com> ...or "I really enjoy installing undocumented system patches that destabilize the OS and negatively impact performance." :-) PaulM > -----Original Message----- > Let me get this straight. You're asking a LUG whether you > should run Windows or Linux? You're a funny guy :) But > seriously, it would help if you had some requirements. For > instance, "I want a good, efficient desktop", or "I want to > run a web server", or "I'm building a machine for my > grandmother for email", or whatever. From brucesmith at chartermi.net Thu Jul 1 10:58:25 2004 From: brucesmith at chartermi.net (Bruce Smith) Date: Thu Jul 1 10:58:28 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Note to GLLUG list administrator. Message-ID: <1088693904.20889.34.camel@lx1.armintl.com> It would be really nice if you changed the mailman options so replies default to "this list". It's the "reply_goes_to_list" option on the general options screen. I know the mailman documentation recommends you leave it as replying to the poster, but I have admin'ed a lot of mailman lists for years and I've never had a problem changing the setting to reply to the list. In fact this is the only list that I'm on that defaults to replying to the poster and it's really annoying to have to change the "TO" every time I reply! (when I can remember to change it). Thanks, BS From dpk at egr.msu.edu Thu Jul 1 11:16:08 2004 From: dpk at egr.msu.edu (dpk) Date: Thu Jul 1 11:16:21 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Note to GLLUG list administrator. In-Reply-To: <1088693904.20889.34.camel@lx1.armintl.com> References: <1088693904.20889.34.camel@lx1.armintl.com> Message-ID: <40E42AB8.4060007@egr.msu.edu> Bruce Smith wrote: > It would be really nice if you changed the mailman options so replies > default to "this list". It's the "reply_goes_to_list" option on the > general options screen. > > I know the mailman documentation recommends you leave it as replying to > the poster, but I have admin'ed a lot of mailman lists for years and > I've never had a problem changing the setting to reply to the list. > > In fact this is the only list that I'm on that defaults to replying to > the poster and it's really annoying to have to change the "TO" every > time I reply! (when I can remember to change it). This idea has been tossed around a number of times. See the list archives to discussions on pros/cons. If consensus is it should be changed, I will. dpk From plhofmei at antiochcomputerconsulting.com Thu Jul 1 11:17:50 2004 From: plhofmei at antiochcomputerconsulting.com (Phillip Hofmeister) Date: Thu Jul 1 11:17:55 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] cheap cd-rw drives In-Reply-To: References: <200406231536.i5NFaqID020933@egr.msu.edu> <200406300259.i5U2xFw18741@anon.securenym.net> <40E41149.1040309@msu.edu> Message-ID: <20040701151750.GA25100@antiochcomputerconsulting.com> On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 at 10:10:37AM -0400, Cory Spitz wrote: > Let me get this straight. You're asking a LUG whether you should run > Windows or Linux? You're a funny guy :) But seriously, it would help > if you had some requirements. For instance, "I want a good, efficient > desktop", or "I want to run a web server", or "I'm building a > machine for my grandmother for email", or whatever. Or "I require the machine to crash at least once every day unexpectedly"... -- Phillip Hofmeister PGP/GPG Key: http://www.zionlth.org/~plhofmei/ wget -O - http://www.zionlth.org/~plhofmei/key.asc | gpg --import From plhofmei at antiochcomputerconsulting.com Thu Jul 1 11:18:59 2004 From: plhofmei at antiochcomputerconsulting.com (Phillip Hofmeister) Date: Thu Jul 1 11:19:02 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] cheap cd-rw drives In-Reply-To: <40E41149.1040309@msu.edu> References: <200406231536.i5NFaqID020933@egr.msu.edu> <200406300259.i5U2xFw18741@anon.securenym.net> <40E41149.1040309@msu.edu> Message-ID: <20040701151859.GB25100@antiochcomputerconsulting.com> On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 at 09:27:37AM -0400, Scott Harrison wrote: > I'm trying to decide between windows and linux. > Any ideas or suggestions out there? I actually wrote my college honors thesis on this topic. It is around 45 pages if anyone is interested....just email me. -- Phillip Hofmeister PGP/GPG Key: http://www.zionlth.org/~plhofmei/ wget -O - http://www.zionlth.org/~plhofmei/key.asc | gpg --import From plhofmei at antiochcomputerconsulting.com Thu Jul 1 11:23:24 2004 From: plhofmei at antiochcomputerconsulting.com (Phillip Hofmeister) Date: Thu Jul 1 11:23:26 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Note to GLLUG list administrator. In-Reply-To: <1088693904.20889.34.camel@lx1.armintl.com> References: <1088693904.20889.34.camel@lx1.armintl.com> Message-ID: <20040701152324.GC25100@antiochcomputerconsulting.com> On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 at 10:58:25AM -0400, Bruce Smith wrote: > It would be really nice if you changed the mailman options so replies > default to "this list". It's the "reply_goes_to_list" option on the > general options screen. > > I know the mailman documentation recommends you leave it as replying to > the poster, but I have admin'ed a lot of mailman lists for years and > I've never had a problem changing the setting to reply to the list. If you run mutt you just define the email address as a list you are subscribed to and then you hit "L" to reply-to-list. Changing the behavior of the receiving MUA is a bad idea if you ask me. But Mutt gives you the option to ignore the "reply_to" headers. When I hit "r" to reply it asks me..."Reply to ?" I can say "n" and then it replies to sender. Too bad other MUAs lack some of these features... -- Phillip Hofmeister PGP/GPG Key: http://www.zionlth.org/~plhofmei/ wget -O - http://www.zionlth.org/~plhofmei/key.asc | gpg --import From blp at cs.stanford.edu Thu Jul 1 12:26:21 2004 From: blp at cs.stanford.edu (Ben Pfaff) Date: Thu Jul 1 12:26:29 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Note to GLLUG list administrator. In-Reply-To: <1088693904.20889.34.camel@lx1.armintl.com> (Bruce Smith's message of "Thu, 01 Jul 2004 10:58:25 -0400") References: <1088693904.20889.34.camel@lx1.armintl.com> Message-ID: <87zn6jzob6.fsf@benpfaff.org> Bruce Smith writes: > It would be really nice if you changed the mailman options so replies > default to "this list". It's the "reply_goes_to_list" option on the > general options screen. Why don't you learn how to use the "reply to group" command? -- "Premature optimization is the root of all evil." --D. E. Knuth, "Structured Programming with go to Statements" From PMelson at sequoianet.com Thu Jul 1 12:39:47 2004 From: PMelson at sequoianet.com (Melson, Paul) Date: Thu Jul 1 12:40:59 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Note to GLLUG list administrator. Message-ID: <0FD9D979B9535D4890AE309799B6D1E5883978@lansingemail.seqnt.com> Not all of us are blessed with a mail client that smart or the choice to change it. :-\ > -----Original Message----- > Why don't you learn how to use the "reply to group" command? From bbartilson at comcast.net Thu Jul 1 12:54:15 2004 From: bbartilson at comcast.net (Bill Bartilson) Date: Thu Jul 1 12:54:19 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Note to GLLUG list administrator. References: <0FD9D979B9535D4890AE309799B6D1E5883978@lansingemail.seqnt.com> Message-ID: <00a001c45f8c$0b12d420$8603020a@star.lcc.edu> What he said. > Not all of us are blessed with a mail client that smart or the choice to > change it. :-\ > > > -----Original Message----- > > Why don't you learn how to use the "reply to group" command? From brucesmith at chartermi.net Thu Jul 1 13:04:40 2004 From: brucesmith at chartermi.net (Bruce Smith) Date: Thu Jul 1 13:04:46 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Note to GLLUG list administrator. In-Reply-To: <40E42AB8.4060007@egr.msu.edu> References: <1088693904.20889.34.camel@lx1.armintl.com> <40E42AB8.4060007@egr.msu.edu> Message-ID: <1088701480.20889.40.camel@lx1.armintl.com> > > It would be really nice if you changed the mailman options so replies > > default to "this list". It's the "reply_goes_to_list" option on the > > general options screen. > > > > I know the mailman documentation recommends you leave it as replying to > > the poster, but I have admin'ed a lot of mailman lists for years and > > I've never had a problem changing the setting to reply to the list. > > > > In fact this is the only list that I'm on that defaults to replying to > > the poster and it's really annoying to have to change the "TO" every > > time I reply! (when I can remember to change it). > > This idea has been tossed around a number of times. See the list > archives to discussions on pros/cons. If consensus is it should be > changed, I will. I guess it depends on what kind of traffic you want on the list. If you want questions only, with replies being sent privately to the poster, then leave it as is. If you want the answers to go to the list then maybe that should be the default. BTW, it's also annoying to get two copies of replies to messages I sent when someone hits reply-all (like you did, and I did this time). Also, I don't use mutt, I use evolution. If anyone know of a way for a similar feature in evolution to reply-to-list, please let me know. - BS From glowack2 at msu.edu Thu Jul 1 13:06:37 2004 From: glowack2 at msu.edu (Edward Glowacki) Date: Thu Jul 1 13:06:39 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Note to GLLUG list administrator. In-Reply-To: <0FD9D979B9535D4890AE309799B6D1E5883978@lansingemail.seqnt.com> References: <0FD9D979B9535D4890AE309799B6D1E5883978@lansingemail.seqnt.com> Message-ID: <1088701596.312.270.camel@hurakan.cl.msu.edu> On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 12:39, Melson, Paul wrote: > Not all of us are blessed with a mail client that smart or the choice to > change it. :-\ Hmm... try "Reply to all" and delete the extra addresses? -ED -- Edward Glowacki glowack2@msu.edu GLLUG Peon http://www.gllug.org Imagination is the one weapon in the war against reality. -- Jules de Gaultier From craigw at cctechservices.com Thu Jul 1 13:28:19 2004 From: craigw at cctechservices.com (Craig Weaver) Date: Thu Jul 1 13:28:32 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Note to GLLUG list administrator. In-Reply-To: <1088701480.20889.40.camel@lx1.armintl.com> References: <1088693904.20889.34.camel@lx1.armintl.com> <40E42AB8.4060007@egr.msu.edu> <1088701480.20889.40.camel@lx1.armintl.com> Message-ID: <1088702899.5542.0.camel@craiglinux> l in evolution 1.4 will do a reply to list. On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 13:04, Bruce Smith wrote: > > > It would be really nice if you changed the mailman options so replies > > > default to "this list". It's the "reply_goes_to_list" option on the > > > general options screen. > > > > > > I know the mailman documentation recommends you leave it as replying to > > > the poster, but I have admin'ed a lot of mailman lists for years and > > > I've never had a problem changing the setting to reply to the list. > > > > > > In fact this is the only list that I'm on that defaults to replying to > > > the poster and it's really annoying to have to change the "TO" every > > > time I reply! (when I can remember to change it). > > > > This idea has been tossed around a number of times. See the list > > archives to discussions on pros/cons. If consensus is it should be > > changed, I will. > > I guess it depends on what kind of traffic you want on the list. > > If you want questions only, with replies being sent privately to the > poster, then leave it as is. If you want the answers to go to the list > then maybe that should be the default. > > BTW, it's also annoying to get two copies of replies to messages I sent > when someone hits reply-all (like you did, and I did this time). > > Also, I don't use mutt, I use evolution. If anyone know of a way for a > similar feature in evolution to reply-to-list, please let me know. > > - BS > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-user mailing list > linux-user@egr.msu.edu > http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user > > From brucesmith at chartermi.net Thu Jul 1 13:38:27 2004 From: brucesmith at chartermi.net (Bruce Smith) Date: Thu Jul 1 13:38:30 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Note to GLLUG list administrator. In-Reply-To: <1088702899.5542.0.camel@craiglinux> References: <1088693904.20889.34.camel@lx1.armintl.com> <40E42AB8.4060007@egr.msu.edu> <1088701480.20889.40.camel@lx1.armintl.com> <1088702899.5542.0.camel@craiglinux> Message-ID: <1088703507.20889.49.camel@lx1.armintl.com> > l in evolution 1.4 will do a reply to list. By golly it does, thanks!!! - BS From PMelson at sequoianet.com Thu Jul 1 15:41:02 2004 From: PMelson at sequoianet.com (Melson, Paul) Date: Thu Jul 1 15:42:10 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Note to GLLUG list administrator. Message-ID: <0FD9D979B9535D4890AE309799B6D1E588397B@lansingemail.seqnt.com> I do. ^^SEE?^^ :-) > -----Original Message----- > Hmm... try "Reply to all" and delete the extra addresses? From marshal at simons-rock.edu Thu Jul 1 22:54:10 2004 From: marshal at simons-rock.edu (Marshal Newrock) Date: Thu Jul 1 22:54:33 2004 Subject: Windows vs. Linux (was: Re: [GLLUG] cheap cd-rw drives) In-Reply-To: <1088692884.312.242.camel@hurakan.cl.msu.edu> References: <200406231536.i5NFaqID020933@egr.msu.edu> <200406300259.i5U2xFw18741@anon.securenym.net> <40E41149.1040309@msu.edu> <1088692884.312.242.camel@hurakan.cl.msu.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Jul 2004, Edward Glowacki wrote: > Web development: Windows, because you have to run IE to test your site. > If you have another machine (even a slow one or one you only have > periodic access to) that runs Windows, then you might go with Linux or > BSD here so you can have all the relevant server apps running on your > own machine for development/testing. (You can get apache/mysql/php for > Windows by the way, there's a package out there that has everything you > need. Look at > http://www.hotscripts.com/PHP/Software_and_Servers/Installation_Kits/) Actually, I have IE running under Wine. It's pretty neat. I can see all the IE bugs without having to use a Windows machine. It's also much easier to backup and restore. And my gaming needs are quite modest (my favorite is a turn-based strategy game with no 3D needs), but it was trivial to install and play in Wine. Now, as far as if Wine works in BSD with a Linux compatibility layer, that you'd have to ask someone more familiar with BSD than me. > 2. How well can you administer each of the OS's? Or how quickly can you > learn? > > Whichever you can competently administer to keep up-to-date. Both > Linux/BSD and Windows will give you plenty of rope to hang yourself > with, so keep an eye out and keep your system patched. The difference there is that Windows not only provides rope, but thoughtfully tosses a few hidden snares in as well. -- CAUTION: Product will be hot after heating From glowack2 at msu.edu Fri Jul 2 19:37:48 2004 From: glowack2 at msu.edu (Edward Glowacki) Date: Fri Jul 2 19:37:51 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Note to GLLUG list administrator. In-Reply-To: <1088703507.20889.49.camel@lx1.armintl.com> References: <1088693904.20889.34.camel@lx1.armintl.com> <40E42AB8.4060007@egr.msu.edu> <1088701480.20889.40.camel@lx1.armintl.com> <1088702899.5542.0.camel@craiglinux> <1088703507.20889.49.camel@lx1.armintl.com> Message-ID: <1088811468.312.272.camel@hurakan.cl.msu.edu> On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 13:38, Bruce Smith wrote: > > l in evolution 1.4 will do a reply to list. > > By golly it does, thanks!!! You can also do it with right-click on the message. -ED -- Edward Glowacki From vincen21 at msu.edu Sat Jul 3 18:52:05 2004 From: vincen21 at msu.edu (Jolyon Michael Vincent) Date: Sat Jul 3 18:52:07 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Re: burning cds In-Reply-To: <40E1314E.60402@acd.net> References: <20040629053821.1580.qmail@web20730.mail.yahoo.com> <40E1314E.60402@acd.net> Message-ID: Brian Craft writes: > Seth Seger wrote: >> Hi, I'm a linux newbie, and I'm trying to explore as >> many different distros as possible, and learn as much >> as I can. <> >> Is it >> better/easier to just burn cds this way? How would I >> do that? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! >> > Put in a blank CD into your CD-ROM Burner drive. Launch K3b and then > click on Tools/CD/Burn CD image. > > A window will open up that will allow you to burn the .iso image into a > usable format on the CD. > -- > Brian Craft me 2! except my problem is that I need to back up data on a dual dvd drive. The ONLY place I have found that even has DVD-RW is at Erickson hall at MSU. This lab is open to the public; you do not have to be a student to use it. For that, I am grateful. Still, I don't know where to find a dual sided burner. I can't afford to buy a drive myself (even single sided) but I do have a stack of 25 dvd-r blanks that I want to use to back up my data. Would it be possible to use these same general-spec dvds to burn on a dual sided drive? Do you or anyone you know have had any experience burning double sided dvds? I'm trying to backup my 160gb HDD, I have had problems with finding a viable solution to backing up this much data without purchasing another drive of equal size. I think that at a dollar a dvd, using ds-dvds would be a reasonable alternative. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you get about 4.7gb per side? so if I figure on backing up even just 120gb, I could probably do it with the stack of blanks I have now (assuming I can use them for dual-sided drives). My mind is wandering--I'll stop now and wait for your reply. From vincen21 at msu.edu Sat Jul 3 19:02:11 2004 From: vincen21 at msu.edu (Jolyon Michael Vincent) Date: Sat Jul 3 19:02:14 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Re: Note to GLLUG list administrator--flame on! In-Reply-To: <00a001c45f8c$0b12d420$8603020a@star.lcc.edu> References: <0FD9D979B9535D4890AE309799B6D1E5883978@lansingemail.seqnt.com> <00a001c45f8c$0b12d420$8603020a@star.lcc.edu> Message-ID: Bill Bartilson writes: > What he said. > > >> Not all of us are blessed with a mail client that smart or the choice to >> change it. :-\ >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > Why don't you learn how to use the "reply to group" command? > > _______________________________________________ > linux-user mailing list > linux-user@egr.msu.edu > http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user > Woo,my oh my! I don't read many lug posts all that often. Today I decided to go through some 100 emails. I found 4 so far in this thread. What amazing fireworks! Well, that pun being said...Happy 4th of july! I must admit I do enjoy a good show once and awhile. Use Open Source Software. http://www.gllug.org/ is much better. From vincen21 at msu.edu Sat Jul 3 19:14:29 2004 From: vincen21 at msu.edu (Jolyon Michael Vincent) Date: Sat Jul 3 19:14:42 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Re: cheap cd-rw drives In-Reply-To: <20040701151859.GB25100@antiochcomputerconsulting.com> References: <200406231536.i5NFaqID020933@egr.msu.edu> <200406300259.i5U2xFw18741@anon.securenym.net> <40E41149.1040309@msu.edu> <20040701151859.GB25100@antiochcomputerconsulting.com> Message-ID: Phillip Hofmeister writes: > On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 at 09:27:37AM -0400, Scott Harrison wrote: >> I'm trying to decide between windows and linux. >> Any ideas or suggestions out there? > > I actually wrote my college honors thesis on this topic. It is around > 45 pages if anyone is interested....just email me. > > -- > Phillip Hofmeister > > PGP/GPG Key: > http://www.zionlth.org/~plhofmei/ > wget -O - http://www.zionlth.org/~plhofmei/key.asc | gpg --import > _______________________________________________ > linux-user mailing list > linux-user@egr.msu.edu > http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user > If you have the money, or the means...use windows xp pro or 2003 server. Then run a virtual machine (even for your nomral windows os) inside your windows xp/2003. It will run slower, but you are now working in basically one large file (that houses your OS and all your drives) rather than host OS. Heres a few pros/cons. Q: Why does windows suck? A: Virii. Spyware. Most of this stuff was designed for windows, not linux users. Windows is also prone to memory leaks. Q: why do (some) variations of liinux suck? a: lets take debian for an example (feel free to flame me here). Debian has little documentation for someone learning linux. And Redhat, despite having a package manager, still requires you to install bits and pieces in order for it to properly setup and run your installed software. I'm sure someone will correct me on this, but the operating system itself (in windows) generally does not need you to install anything more than drivers in order to run your software. *nix requires you to compile code in order to obtain functionality. Now, *my* personal favorites are Redhat, and Knoppix. Knoppix, is a live CD which "your grandmother could run". I havent played with it that much yet, but the knoppix-std versions out there promise to be very exciting in what it can do. Especially when you're running old machines like mine. see my tagline, and also www.linux.org Use Open Source Software. http://www.gllug.org/ is much better. From vincen21 at msu.edu Sat Jul 3 19:34:48 2004 From: vincen21 at msu.edu (Jolyon Michael Vincent) Date: Sat Jul 3 19:34:51 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] A call to arms. Message-ID: I am sending out this request to the masses in order to find a few honorable souls that I can trust to help me build my "castle". Yes, call me backwards if you must--but I would like to have a few working web servers with flourishing content by the end of summer, hosted on a reasonably fast connection (for free) and maintained by the few, the proud, the....Well actually just you and me! When the web server, ftp server, mysql server, php server, p2p servers, hubs and client-ware are finally installed --I would like to be able to back up the whole project on a single DVD. Given most of the software I have seen so far, I think that a DVD is probably overkill. Howerver this allows me to backup data as well as the original programs and/or OS. So this is my request and challenge...to find those that would be willing to help install, maintain and administer these servers; to keep them from harm, to ensure their survival against all sorts of threats. My personal goals for this project include learning more about hosting, with your help. The content will be non-profit in nature, in compliance with any appliciple AUPs/EULAs. If you have any questions, please email me. Come, let us build not just a castle, but a virtual fortress defended by our wits and the best IDS you can come up with. Use Open Source Software. http://www.gllug.org/ is much better. From plhofmei at antiochcomputerconsulting.com Sat Jul 3 19:38:06 2004 From: plhofmei at antiochcomputerconsulting.com (Phillip Hofmeister) Date: Sat Jul 3 19:38:10 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Re: cheap cd-rw drives In-Reply-To: References: <200406231536.i5NFaqID020933@egr.msu.edu> <200406300259.i5U2xFw18741@anon.securenym.net> <40E41149.1040309@msu.edu> <20040701151859.GB25100@antiochcomputerconsulting.com> Message-ID: <20040703233806.GA20373@antiochcomputerconsulting.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 at 07:14:29PM -0400, Jolyon Michael Vincent wrote: > Q: why do (some) variations of liinux suck? > a: lets take debian for an example (feel free to flame me here). Debian has Not worth my breath or time of day, but thanks for the offer. (BTW, I will presume you have never used Debian and most of the How-Tos you find on google were written for Debian systems...I'll just assume you are completely clueless about Debian...) Good day, > little documentation for someone learning linux. And Redhat, despite having - -- Phillip Hofmeister PGP/GPG Key: http://www.zionlth.org/~plhofmei/ wget -O - http://www.zionlth.org/~plhofmei/key.asc | gpg --import -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Key available at http://www.zionlth.org/~plhofmei/key.asc iD8DBQFA50NZS3Jybf3L5MQRAjhvAJ9uwfoHMn+Mp4HfgnHhskZ1fgrDJwCfXY2p S4oWt2YcusbFxnMsiWj4MBM= =n1LN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From brucesmith at chartermi.net Sat Jul 3 21:20:56 2004 From: brucesmith at chartermi.net (Bruce Smith) Date: Sat Jul 3 21:20:35 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Re: cheap cd-rw drives In-Reply-To: <20040703233806.GA20373@antiochcomputerconsulting.com> References: <200406231536.i5NFaqID020933@egr.msu.edu> <200406300259.i5U2xFw18741@anon.securenym.net> <40E41149.1040309@msu.edu> <20040701151859.GB25100@antiochcomputerconsulting.com> <20040703233806.GA20373@antiochcomputerconsulting.com> Message-ID: <1088904055.12913.23.camel@pc1h.armintl.com> > > Q: why do (some) variations of liinux suck? > > a: lets take debian for an example (feel free to flame me here). Debian has > > Not worth my breath or time of day, but thanks for the offer. > > (BTW, I will presume you have never used Debian and most of the How-Tos > you find on google were written for Debian systems...I'll just assume > you are completely clueless about Debian...) I'm a long time Redhat user, and most recently SuSE. I've heard good things about Debian, and I've make a few attempts to try Debian and never got very far. In fact I've never got past the install. The first time I tried, it started asking me stupid questions like what IRQ certain hardware uses, I got pissed because I don't know that off the top of my head (Redhat has detected that for years) and I gave up. Another time I got into some kind of a loop with the installer where I kept going through the same set of screens. And once I managed to get a very minimal system installed, and couldn't get it to load any packages off the CD's. Every time I tried to install something it'd try to download and install it off the internet. Since I didn't want to spend a couple days completing the install with my slow internet connect, I gave up again. I don't care if the installer looks pretty, but I'd like it to detect hardware and work. Text mode is fine, I don't need a GUI/X. But it has to be functional! It's been a little while since my last attempt, so maybe the install process has improved. I heard something about a new/improved installer that is still in beta. It it still in beta? Does it work? If so, how can I use it? If I download the latest stable ISO images, will they contain the new installer? I would really like to try Debian again ... - BS From blp at cs.stanford.edu Sat Jul 3 23:22:33 2004 From: blp at cs.stanford.edu (Ben Pfaff) Date: Sat Jul 3 23:22:38 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Re: cheap cd-rw drives In-Reply-To: <1088904055.12913.23.camel@pc1h.armintl.com> (Bruce Smith's message of "Sat, 03 Jul 2004 21:20:56 -0400") References: <200406231536.i5NFaqID020933@egr.msu.edu> <200406300259.i5U2xFw18741@anon.securenym.net> <40E41149.1040309@msu.edu> <20040701151859.GB25100@antiochcomputerconsulting.com> <20040703233806.GA20373@antiochcomputerconsulting.com> <1088904055.12913.23.camel@pc1h.armintl.com> Message-ID: <87n02gv4li.fsf@benpfaff.org> Bruce Smith writes: > I've heard good things about Debian, and I've make a few attempts to try > Debian and never got very far. In fact I've never got past the install. Debian's installer has always sucked. It has always been the worst part of the distribution. However, this is changing. > It's been a little while since my last attempt, so maybe the install > process has improved. I heard something about a new/improved installer > that is still in beta. It it still in beta? Does it work? If so, how > can I use it? If I download the latest stable ISO images, will they > contain the new installer? I would really like to try Debian again ... The new installer is still in beta; it is part of the "testing" and "unstable" distributions. If you install "testing", you can use the new installer. I had occasion to try it out a few weeks ago when I bought a new machine. It works great, especially when you compare it to the older versions. I described a few minor errata in a bug report, and quite possibly these have already been fixed. Also: if you install a machine with Debian, you will probably never have to use the installer again on that machine again. On my last three or four computers, I have installed Debian exactly once each. Although I've upgraded them often ("apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade), there's never any reason to re-install from scratch. If you wait for the new installer to be part of a released distribution, you will be waiting a long time. Debian might release sometime this calendar year, but I'm not holding my breath. -- Regarding a Microsoft/Xerox agreement: "This is a match made in heaven. Both companies excel at copying other people's work." --douglas@min.net From mpr_linux at ameritech.net Sat Jul 3 23:39:54 2004 From: mpr_linux at ameritech.net (Michael Rudas) Date: Sat Jul 3 23:39:57 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Knoppix as Debian installer (was) Re: cheap cd-rw drives Message-ID: <20040704033954.35230.qmail@web80605.mail.yahoo.com> Bruce Smith wrote: >I'm a long time Redhat user, and most recently SuSE. > >I've heard good things about Debian, and I've make a few attempts to try >Debian and never got very far. In fact I've never got past the install. > [snip] >I don't care if the installer looks pretty, but I'd like it to detect >hardware and work. Text mode is fine, I don't need a GUI/X. But it has >to be functional! I have used Knoppix as a Debian installer for over a year. I have deliberately done multiple installs, partly for whole-distribution updating and partly as a learning exercise. I have been quite pleased, overall, and would recommend it to almost anyone who wants to install and learn Linux. Having the bandwidth of DSL helps; minor glitches have happened, but pre-update backups are quick and you can't beat the price -- or the convenience of apt-get. It's been a good experience and learning tool. -- Michael Rudas From plhofmei at antiochcomputerconsulting.com Sun Jul 4 20:23:45 2004 From: plhofmei at antiochcomputerconsulting.com (Phillip Hofmeister) Date: Sun Jul 4 20:23:49 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Re: cheap cd-rw drives In-Reply-To: <1088904055.12913.23.camel@pc1h.armintl.com> References: <200406231536.i5NFaqID020933@egr.msu.edu> <200406300259.i5U2xFw18741@anon.securenym.net> <40E41149.1040309@msu.edu> <20040701151859.GB25100@antiochcomputerconsulting.com> <20040703233806.GA20373@antiochcomputerconsulting.com> <1088904055.12913.23.camel@pc1h.armintl.com> Message-ID: <20040705002345.GA11787@antiochcomputerconsulting.com> On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 at 09:20:56PM -0400, Bruce Smith wrote: > It's been a little while since my last attempt, so maybe the install > process has improved. I heard something about a new/improved installer > that is still in beta. It it still in beta? Does it work? If so, how > can I use it? If I download the latest stable ISO images, will they > contain the new installer? I would really like to try Debian again ... "Woody" is still stable, so no. They are working on something for sid/sarge. However, sarge has not been placed in any state of freeze yet so the likelihood of a release within the next 12 months is small. I grant you, the installer is not great. Most hardware these days is Plug and Play, therefore you don't need to know the IRQs, just the devices you need (ie: eepro100, sblaster, etc.). As I mentioned, they are working on a hardware detector for sarge. The current motto is though "you should know what hardware is in the box". If you don't just keep trying to install modules until you succeed and find the one you need. A failed module insertion attempt is noted to you by the installer, as is a successful one. -- Phillip Hofmeister PGP/GPG Key: http://www.zionlth.org/~plhofmei/ wget -O - http://www.zionlth.org/~plhofmei/key.asc | gpg --import From plhofmei at antiochcomputerconsulting.com Sun Jul 4 20:25:27 2004 From: plhofmei at antiochcomputerconsulting.com (Phillip Hofmeister) Date: Sun Jul 4 20:25:30 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Re: cheap cd-rw drives In-Reply-To: <87n02gv4li.fsf@benpfaff.org> References: <200406231536.i5NFaqID020933@egr.msu.edu> <200406300259.i5U2xFw18741@anon.securenym.net> <40E41149.1040309@msu.edu> <20040701151859.GB25100@antiochcomputerconsulting.com> <20040703233806.GA20373@antiochcomputerconsulting.com> <1088904055.12913.23.camel@pc1h.armintl.com> <87n02gv4li.fsf@benpfaff.org> Message-ID: <20040705002527.GB11787@antiochcomputerconsulting.com> On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 at 11:22:33PM -0400, Ben Pfaff wrote: > Also: if you install a machine with Debian, you will probably > never have to use the installer again on that machine again. On > my last three or four computers, I have installed Debian exactly > once each. Although I've upgraded them often ("apt-get update && > apt-get dist-upgrade), there's never any reason to re-install > from scratch. True, unless you get h0xed. Many of my machines are upgraded potato machines. The dist-upgrade process works almost flawlessly (more than I can so for Mandrake, RedHat, and MS Windows). -- Phillip Hofmeister PGP/GPG Key: http://www.zionlth.org/~plhofmei/ wget -O - http://www.zionlth.org/~plhofmei/key.asc | gpg --import From c.tower at express56.com Sun Jul 4 22:20:56 2004 From: c.tower at express56.com (Chick Tower) Date: Sun Jul 4 22:18:02 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Re: Knoppix As Debian Installer In-Reply-To: <200407041600.i64G0IIE007880@egr.msu.edu> References: <200407041600.i64G0IIE007880@egr.msu.edu> Message-ID: <1088971387.2831.10.camel@AMD2001> On Sun, 2004-07-04, Michael Rudas wrote, in part: > I have used Knoppix as a Debian installer for over a > year. And, if anyone cares to find out how to do so, check these three URLs (mind the line wrap). http://www.freenet.org.nz/misc/knoppix-install.html http://articles.linmagau.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=181&page=1 http://www.linuxworld.com/story/32797.htm Chick Tower From felicia at lon-capa.org Tue Jul 6 09:47:01 2004 From: felicia at lon-capa.org (Felicia Berryman) Date: Tue Jul 6 09:47:05 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Re: call to arms In-Reply-To: <200407041600.i64G0IID007880@egr.msu.edu> References: <200407041600.i64G0IID007880@egr.msu.edu> Message-ID: <40EAAD55.10106@lon-capa.org> Hi Jolyon, >Come, let us build not just a castle, but a virtual fortress defended by our >wits and the best IDS you can come up with. > > I am interested in this project. I have two non-profit websites that I maintain and I would like to host them better. I was thinking of trying: http://www.dyndns.org/services/custom/ and using my own machine at home and my comcast connection. This is more like a cabin than a castle though. Anyway, I'm still interested in more details - seems like we have similar goals. Felicia Berryman berryma5@msu.edu From PMelson at sequoianet.com Tue Jul 6 11:08:32 2004 From: PMelson at sequoianet.com (Melson, Paul) Date: Tue Jul 6 11:09:44 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Free Novell Linux Resource Kit Message-ID: <0FD9D979B9535D4890AE309799B6D1E5883984@lansingemail.seqnt.com> http://www.novell.com/community/linux/order.php From harris41 at msu.edu Tue Jul 6 21:47:50 2004 From: harris41 at msu.edu (Scott Harrison) Date: Tue Jul 6 21:44:25 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] /boot on /dev/hda Message-ID: <1089164870.1115.37.camel@computer1.oaksco.net> Hi, Is there still a need to have /boot on /dev/hda (especially on the first portions of /dev/hda)? Is this "need" (which I have encountered by experience over the years, RTFM, etc) due to dinosaur hardware or due to ancient (and since improved) boot loaders, distros, kernels, etc? All this assumes that master boot record is configured to point to grub, etc. Specifically, I am interested to hear if Mandrake 10.0 works fairly robustly for dual boot solutions where everything (including /boot) is on /dev/hdb, /dev/hdc, or /dev/hdd. Just hoping somebody can jog my memory, shed some light, and all the kewl things some of you out there take time to do. Regards, Scott From engidere at msu.edu Tue Jul 6 23:19:50 2004 From: engidere at msu.edu (Derek Engi) Date: Tue Jul 6 23:12:49 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] /boot on /dev/hda In-Reply-To: <1089164870.1115.37.camel@computer1.oaksco.net> References: <1089164870.1115.37.camel@computer1.oaksco.net> Message-ID: <1089170390.15947.10.camel@Impetus> At times, ive just not had a dedicated /boot partition, It's mainly for reduncdancy, if something messes up on the boot partition, you can still recover data. As for dual booting, especially with newer distros, the need for a seperate partition is less and less. On my laptop, I have Windows Xp on /dev/hda1, and fedora core on hda2 and swap on hda3. At home, windows on hda, fedora on hdb, and blank fat storage on hdc. Works great. Derek On Tue, 2004-07-06 at 21:47, Scott Harrison wrote: > Hi, > > Is there still a need to have /boot on /dev/hda > (especially on the first portions of /dev/hda)? > > Is this "need" (which I have encountered by > experience over the years, RTFM, etc) due > to dinosaur hardware or due to ancient > (and since improved) boot loaders, distros, kernels, etc? > > All this assumes that master boot record is > configured to point to grub, etc. Specifically, > I am interested to hear if Mandrake 10.0 works > fairly robustly for dual boot solutions where > everything (including /boot) is on /dev/hdb, /dev/hdc, > or /dev/hdd. > > Just hoping somebody can jog my memory, shed some > light, and all the kewl things some of you out > there take time to do. > > Regards, > Scott > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-user mailing list > linux-user@egr.msu.edu > http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user > From hoortbri at msu.edu Wed Jul 7 10:59:20 2004 From: hoortbri at msu.edu (Brian Hoort) Date: Wed Jul 7 10:59:23 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] BSD Distro First-Try Recommendations Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040707105423.01d20168@mail.msu.edu> Greetings Venerable GLLUG Members, Being frustrated with some GNU/Linux distros, I'm considering trying a BSD varient. I'm mainly concerned with stability and ease through updates. Do the BSD distros provide a APT/up2date style update mechanism, and which variety would be recommended for a first timer with no experience there? I'm aware this is a little off-topic for a linux group. Yet many of you drive both, hence your advice should be more relevant to me. Thanks, -- Brian Hoort From picasso at madflower.com Wed Jul 7 11:15:04 2004 From: picasso at madflower.com (Sean O'Malley) Date: Wed Jul 7 11:15:08 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] BSD Distro First-Try Recommendations In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040707105423.01d20168@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: It is on-topic as well as other unix questions. The BEST BSD varient for ease of use, ease of updating and installing is literally MacOS X. On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Brian Hoort wrote: > Greetings Venerable GLLUG Members, > > Being frustrated with some GNU/Linux distros, I'm considering trying a BSD > varient. I'm mainly concerned with stability and ease through updates. Do > the BSD distros provide a APT/up2date style update mechanism, and which > variety would be recommended for a first timer with no experience there? > > I'm aware this is a little off-topic for a linux group. Yet many of you > drive both, hence your advice should be more relevant to me. > > Thanks, > > > -- > Brian Hoort > > _______________________________________________ > linux-user mailing list > linux-user@egr.msu.edu > http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user > From szumlins at mac.com Wed Jul 7 11:18:34 2004 From: szumlins at mac.com (Mike Szumlinski) Date: Wed Jul 7 11:18:46 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] BSD Distro First-Try Recommendations In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040707105423.01d20168@mail.msu.edu> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040707105423.01d20168@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: FreeBSD hands down...its by far the easiest first run BSD to get up and running. FreeBSD uses the ports collection too, so getting software is just as easy as an apt style setup. The only downside to the BSD way of doing things is it only grabs source, not compiled binaries. That means that it takes time to install stuff if you have a slower machine. I don't think its all that off topic...I think I've posted more BSD questions on this list than Linux over the years. -Mike On Jul 7, 2004, at 10:59 AM, Brian Hoort wrote: > Greetings Venerable GLLUG Members, > > Being frustrated with some GNU/Linux distros, I'm considering trying a > BSD varient. I'm mainly concerned with stability and ease through > updates. Do the BSD distros provide a APT/up2date style update > mechanism, and which variety would be recommended for a first timer > with no experience there? > > I'm aware this is a little off-topic for a linux group. Yet many of > you drive both, hence your advice should be more relevant to me. > > Thanks, > > > -- > Brian Hoort > _______________________________________________ > linux-user mailing list > linux-user@egr.msu.edu > http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user From eduardo at cesconetto.com Wed Jul 7 11:29:42 2004 From: eduardo at cesconetto.com (eduardo cesconetto) Date: Wed Jul 7 11:33:10 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] BSD Distro First-Try Recommendations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MacOS X indeed it's the best of all BSD's variations, and you don't need a Super Machine to run it, you can update an old 7500 ('bout 50 bucks on ebay) to a nice G4 500 and run 10.3 Panther on it at a descent speed. On 7/7/04 11:15 AM, "Sean O'Malley" wrote: > It is on-topic as well as other unix questions. > > The BEST BSD varient for ease of use, ease of updating and installing > is literally MacOS X. > > > On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Brian Hoort wrote: > >> Greetings Venerable GLLUG Members, >> >> Being frustrated with some GNU/Linux distros, I'm considering trying a BSD >> varient. I'm mainly concerned with stability and ease through updates. Do >> the BSD distros provide a APT/up2date style update mechanism, and which >> variety would be recommended for a first timer with no experience there? >> >> I'm aware this is a little off-topic for a linux group. Yet many of you >> drive both, hence your advice should be more relevant to me. >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> -- >> Brian Hoort >> >> _______________________________________________ >> linux-user mailing list >> linux-user@egr.msu.edu >> http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user >> > > _______________________________________________ > linux-user mailing list > linux-user@egr.msu.edu > http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user > ________________________________________________________________ $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Data Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Get It Now At www.doteasy.com From mcdouga9 at egr.msu.edu Wed Jul 7 12:48:01 2004 From: mcdouga9 at egr.msu.edu (Adam McDougall) Date: Wed Jul 7 12:48:03 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] BSD Distro First-Try Recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040707105423.01d20168@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: <20040707164801.GV75438@egr.msu.edu> I think trying FreeBSD would provide the most support from this list of the BSD varients, assuming you are working with a PC. You might as well start with 5.2.1 or a later build since it will be more similar to 5.3-stable when it comes out. I highly recommend using portupgrade (from ports or packages) to install/manage/upgrade ports and packages on freebsd, it takes care of upgrading dependancies and all that, and you can use command line switches so it operates completely on binary packages like apt would. I still go with the source method since it is fairly streamlined, realizes updates in ports sooner than packages, and offers some more compilation choices (plugins for php for example) compared to packages, and I don't mind the compile times if interaction is minimal. On Wed, Jul 07, 2004 at 11:18:34AM -0400, Mike Szumlinski wrote: FreeBSD hands down...its by far the easiest first run BSD to get up and running. FreeBSD uses the ports collection too, so getting software is just as easy as an apt style setup. The only downside to the BSD way of doing things is it only grabs source, not compiled binaries. That means that it takes time to install stuff if you have a slower machine. I don't think its all that off topic...I think I've posted more BSD questions on this list than Linux over the years. -Mike On Jul 7, 2004, at 10:59 AM, Brian Hoort wrote: >Greetings Venerable GLLUG Members, > >Being frustrated with some GNU/Linux distros, I'm considering trying a >BSD varient. I'm mainly concerned with stability and ease through >updates. Do the BSD distros provide a APT/up2date style update >mechanism, and which variety would be recommended for a first timer >with no experience there? > >I'm aware this is a little off-topic for a linux group. Yet many of >you drive both, hence your advice should be more relevant to me. > >Thanks, > > >-- >Brian Hoort >_______________________________________________ >linux-user mailing list >linux-user@egr.msu.edu >http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user _______________________________________________ linux-user mailing list linux-user@egr.msu.edu http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user From szumlins at mac.com Wed Jul 7 12:47:31 2004 From: szumlins at mac.com (Mike Szumlinski) Date: Wed Jul 7 12:48:25 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] BSD Distro First-Try Recommendations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56EA675C-D035-11D8-850D-000A95D48C30@mac.com> If you are counting Macs...then by all means OS X away.... Its what I make my money with and what I use at home and work every single day. I just thought he wanted to stick with x86 hardware he already had. -Mike On Jul 7, 2004, at 11:29 AM, eduardo cesconetto wrote: > MacOS X indeed it's the best of all BSD's variations, and you don't > need a > Super Machine to run it, you can update an old 7500 ('bout 50 bucks on > ebay) > to a nice G4 500 and run 10.3 Panther on it at a descent speed. From picasso at madflower.com Wed Jul 7 13:12:36 2004 From: picasso at madflower.com (Sean O'Malley) Date: Wed Jul 7 13:17:40 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] BSD Distro First-Try Recommendations In-Reply-To: <56EA675C-D035-11D8-850D-000A95D48C30@mac.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Mike Szumlinski wrote: > I just thought he wanted to stick with x86 hardware he already had. I didn't jump to any conclusions or make any assumptions. He didn't specify his hardware. He just asked "I'm mainly concerned with stability and ease through updates. ... which variety would be recommended for a first timer with no experience there?" My mom can use and update it so I figured that fit the "ease of use" catagory at the very least. Just the thought that my mom is a Unix user cracks me up. Sean From clay at lazarusid.com Wed Jul 7 14:01:47 2004 From: clay at lazarusid.com (Clay Dowling) Date: Wed Jul 7 13:21:54 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] BSD Distro First-Try Recommendations In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040707105423.01d20168@mail.msu.edu> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040707105423.01d20168@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: <40EC3A8B.5040102@lazarusid.com> Brian Hoort wrote: > Being frustrated with some GNU/Linux distros, I'm considering trying a > BSD varient. I'm mainly concerned with stability and ease through > updates. Do the BSD distros provide a APT/up2date style update > mechanism, and which variety would be recommended for a first timer > with no experience there? I'll also chime in for FreeBSD here. It's pretty easy to install and bone simple to maintain. The only part that is really stinky is trying to upgrade a major X windows system line Gnome or KDE. Wiping out all X and starting fresh is the only practical way, unless you want to dedicate a week to playing/fighting with it. I've never met an operating system or distribution where upgrading the windowing system was easy, so that's not a big flaw for FreeBSD. That said, I'm running on OpenBSD right now, and couldn't be happier. It's very similar to FreeBSD, except that the core developers are security freaks. It's not for the faint of heart though. While modern installs are pretty easy, with my first install it was a good thing that I was pretty familiar with UNIX already, or I would have been up a crick without a paddle (those of you who read Pat McManus will recognize that I did not misspell that). Definitely don't try your first OpenBSD install from a downloaded version though. Get a Distribution CD from http://www.openbsd.org. The cover doubles as a walk through for an install, and you'll want it for your first time. So get FreeBSD and you'll be happy. A CD is cool, but I've had very good luck installing from the network. I'd also advise staying with a Stable release, which means 4.7 or 4.8. My experience (and the experience of the computer lab) has been that when the FreeBSD team says something is stable, they mean it, and if they don't, they mean that too. Clay From mcdouga9 at egr.msu.edu Wed Jul 7 13:50:41 2004 From: mcdouga9 at egr.msu.edu (Adam McDougall) Date: Wed Jul 7 13:50:44 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] BSD Distro First-Try Recommendations In-Reply-To: <40EC3A8B.5040102@lazarusid.com> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040707105423.01d20168@mail.msu.edu> <40EC3A8B.5040102@lazarusid.com> Message-ID: <20040707175041.GB75438@egr.msu.edu> On Wed, Jul 07, 2004 at 01:01:47PM -0500, Clay Dowling wrote: Brian Hoort wrote: >Being frustrated with some GNU/Linux distros, I'm considering trying a >BSD varient. I'm mainly concerned with stability and ease through >updates. Do the BSD distros provide a APT/up2date style update >mechanism, and which variety would be recommended for a first timer >with no experience there? I'll also chime in for FreeBSD here. It's pretty easy to install and bone simple to maintain. The only part that is really stinky is trying to upgrade a major X windows system line Gnome or KDE. Wiping out all X and starting fresh is the only practical way, unless you want to dedicate a week to playing/fighting with it. I've never met an operating system or distribution where upgrading the windowing system was easy, so that's not a big flaw for FreeBSD. Try portupgrade. I also forgot to mention that netbsd has functionality similar or mostly equivalent to portupgrade also, but I don't recall how it is invoked. That said, I'm running on OpenBSD right now, and couldn't be happier. It's very similar to FreeBSD, except that the core developers are security freaks. It's not for the faint of heart though. While modern s/security// (running away :) installs are pretty easy, with my first install it was a good thing that I was pretty familiar with UNIX already, or I would have been up a crick without a paddle (those of you who read Pat McManus will recognize that I did not misspell that). Definitely don't try your first OpenBSD install from a downloaded version though. Get a Distribution CD from http://www.openbsd.org. The cover doubles as a walk through for an install, and you'll want it for your first time. I have heard there are decent docs for setting some things up in openbsd available online. So get FreeBSD and you'll be happy. A CD is cool, but I've had very good luck installing from the network. I'd also advise staying with a Stable release, which means 4.7 or 4.8. My experience (and the Latest stable release is 4.10 now; using anything earlier on the internet (like most dists) is asking for security trouble. experience of the computer lab) has been that when the FreeBSD team says something is stable, they mean it, and if they don't, they mean that too. I generally agree with that too, but often any FreeBSD code you can get your hands on is usable to some degree even if they claim it isn't done. Clay _______________________________________________ linux-user mailing list linux-user@egr.msu.edu http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user From danceswithcrows at usa.net Wed Jul 7 14:32:34 2004 From: danceswithcrows at usa.net (Matt Graham) Date: Wed Jul 7 14:30:51 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] BSD Distro First-Try Recommendations In-Reply-To: <20040707175041.GB75438@egr.msu.edu> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040707105423.01d20168@mail.msu.edu> <40EC3A8B.5040102@lazarusid.com> <20040707175041.GB75438@egr.msu.edu> Message-ID: <200407071432.34539.danceswithcrows@usa.net> On Wednesday 07 July 2004 13:50, after a long battle with technology, Adam McDougall wrote: > On Wed, Jul 07, 2004 at 01:01:47PM -0500, Clay Dowling wrote: > Brian Hoort wrote: >>Being frustrated with some GNU/Linux distros, I'm considering >> trying a BSD varient. > I'll also chime in for FreeBSD here. The only part that is really > stinky is trying to upgrade a major X windows system line Gnome or > KDE. Wiping out all X and starting fresh is the only practical way, > unless you want to dedicate a week to playing/fighting with it. I've > never met an operating system or distribution where upgrading the > windowing system was easy ?? "emerge xfree kde" has worked for me without any hassles through several minor releases of X 4.3.0 and KDE 3.0 through 3.2.2. Gentoo's install can be intimidating if you're not used to command lines, but maintenance and upgrading are insanely easy. (And unlike Debian, you can just do "emerge mplayer" instead of going through contortions.) > I generally agree with that too, but often any FreeBSD code you can > get your hands on is usable to some degree even if they claim > it isn't done. Also, remember that the default BSD toolset is pretty feature-poor compared to the GNU toolset. You'll have to install the GNU tools separately if you want things like bash instead of sh and vim instead of vi. That isn't a huge pain, but it's one more step to take. -- ...In Hong Kong action movies, they don't have Hollywood Guns with infinite bullet supplies. Instead, they have Hong Kong Pants(tm) which hold an infinite supply of loaded pistols. --M. Sphar, the Monastery There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see From asenchi at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 00:06:27 2004 From: asenchi at gmail.com (Asenchi) Date: Thu Jul 8 00:06:34 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] BSD Distro First-Try Recommendations In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040707105423.01d20168@mail.msu.edu> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040707105423.01d20168@mail.msu.edu> Message-ID: <8d9c091a040707210626abda07@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 10:59:20 -0400, Brian Hoort wrote: > Greetings Venerable GLLUG Members, > > Being frustrated with some GNU/Linux distros, I'm considering trying a BSD > varient. I'm mainly concerned with stability and ease through updates. This is tough for me. It would be easy to recommend FreeBSD. It is probably the right BSD for you. It is relatively simple to pick up, and the FreeBSD Handbook is amazing. But I must put in a recommendation for OpenBSD (I notice at least one person has already mentioned it). Here are a couple of reasons. I prefer stability and functionality (which in my head I mean 'ease through updates' as well). I started playing with FreeBSD first, before everything. Liked it, fast, easy to update (probably one of the easier in the world). Then I tried Linux, just to see, couldn't stomach it (just look at the size difference of /etc on a Linux distro and a BSD distro). So I went back to FreeBSD. Being the bleeding edge junky that I am, I had to run -current (or at least 5.x release). Well that just wasn't a good experience, I am not sure where they were going with it, but you'll notice the 5.x branch still isn't stable. Although I have heard recently that it is getting there. So please don't take that as a flame, I used it 2 years ago, just mentioning my experience at the time. So I tried OpenBSD, what an experience! The installer is one of the quickest, to the point installers ever (takes some reading to understand fdisk at first, but after the first time it is a breeze). The system is absolutely rock solid, the security is unbelievable and all of the tools you need are built right in. All you have to do is turn them on! The man pages are spectacular and the FAQ (online) is a great resource as well. I will mention that the updating isn't quite as 'point and click (metaphor)' as FreeBSD, but gets really simple after the first time you do it. Plus there are tons of documents on how to do it. If you really want to get to know your system, feel like experimenting and love the feeling of a warm security blanket - give OpenBSD a try. BTW, just to disagree, use zsh not bash and installing VIM is as easy as `sudo pkg_add -v ftp./vim{version}.tgz` If you would like more information you can find me here: irc server: irc.freenode.net channels: #fluxbox, #openbsd, #asenchi, #ruby-lang I can give you more information on my experiences Good luck. -- -Asenchi (Now a diehard OpenBSD advocate) From PMelson at sequoianet.com Thu Jul 8 09:02:58 2004 From: PMelson at sequoianet.com (Melson, Paul) Date: Thu Jul 8 09:04:11 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] /boot on /dev/hda Message-ID: <0FD9D979B9535D4890AE309799B6D1E5883988@lansingemail.seqnt.com> Yes, as long as we're talking about drives that are recognized by the BIOS, you can install GRUB to the MBR and put the /boot partition anywhere you like. PaulM > -----Original Message----- > All this assumes that master boot record is > configured to point to grub, etc. Specifically, > I am interested to hear if Mandrake 10.0 works > fairly robustly for dual boot solutions where > everything (including /boot) is on /dev/hdb, /dev/hdc, > or /dev/hdd. From PMelson at sequoianet.com Thu Jul 8 09:10:23 2004 From: PMelson at sequoianet.com (Melson, Paul) Date: Thu Jul 8 09:11:39 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] BSD Distro First-Try Recommendations Message-ID: <0FD9D979B9535D4890AE309799B6D1E5926082@lansingemail.seqnt.com> Except that it's not BSD, at least not in the sense that Free/Net/OpenBSD are. It's still a Mach kernel, only the kernel subsystem is BSD - just like NeXTStep was 15 years ago. No idea why Steve Jobs won't let it die, but he just can't let go of it for some reason. PaulM > -----Original Message----- > It is on-topic as well as other unix questions. > > The BEST BSD varient for ease of use, ease of updating and > installing is literally MacOS X. From keyzs4 at ameritech.net Thu Jul 8 09:57:09 2004 From: keyzs4 at ameritech.net (David D) Date: Thu Jul 8 09:59:38 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Formally known as YellowPages References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040707105423.01d20168@mail.msu.edu><40EC3A8B.5040102@lazarusid.com><20040707175041.GB75438@egr.msu.edu> <200407071432.34539.danceswithcrows@usa.net> Message-ID: <001001c464f3$79184240$2a32010a@Mercury2> In a conversation with a coworker who in a former Unix user was explaining how YellowPages worked on the Unix system. We know that the name Yellow pages is no longer used and I am sure there is a Linux version of the same program. I just cannot think of the name and where to research, any idea or thoughts on sharing login/user rights accross Linux servers? Thanks David From dpk at egr.msu.edu Thu Jul 8 10:08:20 2004 From: dpk at egr.msu.edu (dpk) Date: Thu Jul 8 10:08:29 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Formally known as YellowPages In-Reply-To: <001001c464f3$79184240$2a32010a@Mercury2> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040707105423.01d20168@mail.msu.edu><40EC3A8B.5040102@lazarusid.com><20040707175041.GB75438@egr.msu.edu> <200407071432.34539.danceswithcrows@usa.net> <001001c464f3$79184240$2a32010a@Mercury2> Message-ID: <40ED5554.3040508@egr.msu.edu> David D wrote: > In a conversation with a coworker who in a former Unix user was explaining > how YellowPages worked on the Unix system. We know that the name Yellow > pages is no longer used and I am sure there is a Linux version of the same > program. I just cannot think of the name and where to research, any idea or > thoughts on sharing login/user rights accross Linux servers? NIS = Network Information System, formerly YP = Yellow Pages You'll hear it called YP or NIS quite often. The commands are prefixed with yp still (ypcat, ypbind, etc.), however, Yellow Pages is copyrighted and can no longer be legally used to describe this directory/information service. dpk From picasso at madflower.com Thu Jul 8 10:08:28 2004 From: picasso at madflower.com (Sean O'Malley) Date: Thu Jul 8 10:08:40 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Formally known as YellowPages In-Reply-To: <001001c464f3$79184240$2a32010a@Mercury2> Message-ID: I thought yp was still around.. you probably want to look at NIS or LDAP. On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, David D wrote: > In a conversation with a coworker who in a former Unix user was explaining > how YellowPages worked on the Unix system. We know that the name Yellow > pages is no longer used and I am sure there is a Linux version of the same > program. I just cannot think of the name and where to research, any idea or > thoughts on sharing login/user rights accross Linux servers? > > Thanks > David > > _______________________________________________ > linux-user mailing list > linux-user@egr.msu.edu > http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user > From PMelson at sequoianet.com Thu Jul 8 11:03:16 2004 From: PMelson at sequoianet.com (Melson, Paul) Date: Thu Jul 8 11:04:38 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Formally known as YellowPages Message-ID: <0FD9D979B9535D4890AE309799B6D1E588398A@lansingemail.seqnt.com> yp became NIS/NIS+. And while the big three commercial Unices (AIX, Solaris, HP-UX) still support NIS, most of them have some form of LDAP directory system as well. > -----Original Message----- > I thought yp was still around.. > you probably want to look at NIS or LDAP. From marshal at simons-rock.edu Thu Jul 8 13:54:13 2004 From: marshal at simons-rock.edu (Marshal Newrock) Date: Thu Jul 8 13:54:29 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] meeting tonight Message-ID: It's short notice, but it's a meeting tonight at Atmosphere Annealing at 6:00pm. Bring yourselves and any questions you have. Bring your computers too, if you so desire. Everyone welcome, regardless of distribution (*BSD included). For a description of the location, see http://www.gllug.org/mod.php?mod=userpage&menu=18&page_id=18 -- CAUTION: Product will be hot after heating From SzidikM at mlcnet.org Thu Jul 8 15:47:29 2004 From: SzidikM at mlcnet.org (Mark Szidik/mlc) Date: Thu Jul 8 15:52:26 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Procmail problem Message-ID: I am trying to get Clam AV to filter incoming emails. I can run clamdscan from the command line and all works fine, but when I seutp procmail to run clamdscan I get this error: ld.so.1: /usr/local/bin/clamdscan: fatal: libgcc_s.so.1: open failed: No such file or directory Killed My question is what where is the actual error occuring? There are a ton of programs involved at this point: procmail, formail, clamassassin, clamdscan, clamd If it is clamdscan, then why does it work from command line and from Mailman? Here is my .procmailrc: default=/var/mail/szidikm LOGFILE=$HOME/mail/proc.log # # Call ClamAssassin - scan for viruses # :0fw | /usr/local/bin/clamassassin # end MES ########################### :0fw: spamc.lock * < 256000 | spamc Thanks, --- Mark Szidik Michigan Library Consortium 1407 Rensen Street, Suite 1, Lansing, MI 48910-3657 Ph:800.530.9019 x17 Fax:517.394.2096 MLC - Partnerships. Solutions. Excellence. From brucesmith at chartermi.net Thu Jul 8 16:09:51 2004 From: brucesmith at chartermi.net (Bruce Smith) Date: Thu Jul 8 16:10:19 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Procmail problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1089317391.344.7.camel@pc1h.armintl.com> > I am trying to get Clam AV to filter incoming emails. I can run clamdscan > from the command line and all works fine, but when I seutp procmail to run > clamdscan I get this error: > > ld.so.1: /usr/local/bin/clamdscan: fatal: libgcc_s.so.1: open > failed: No such file or directory > Killed Where is libgcc_s.so.1 ? (what directory?) And more important, where does clamdscan think it should be? Run: "ldd /usr/local/bin/clamdscan" and find out. Make sure that libgcc_s.so.1 is is the directory clamdscan thinks it should be. Then see if the directory is listed in: /etc/ld.so.conf If everything checks out, run ldd on other binaries involved - repeat. Remember to run ldconfig if you change ld.so.conf. - BS From picasso at madflower.com Thu Jul 8 16:19:44 2004 From: picasso at madflower.com (Sean O'Malley) Date: Thu Jul 8 16:19:47 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Procmail problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: run ldd against clamdscan I have a sneaky suspician it is linked to libgcc_s.so.1 and the linker can't find it now. You may have to add the path to it in /etc/ld.so.conf and rerun ldconfig to rebuild the cache. or sometimes libgcc_s.so exists and you just need to create a link for it. like ln -s libgcc_s.so libgcc_s.so.1 On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, Mark Szidik/mlc wrote: > I am trying to get Clam AV to filter incoming emails. I can run clamdscan > from the command line and all works fine, but when I seutp procmail to run > clamdscan I get this error: > > ld.so.1: /usr/local/bin/clamdscan: fatal: libgcc_s.so.1: open > failed: No such file or directory > Killed > > My question is what where is the actual error occuring? There are a ton of > programs involved at this point: procmail, formail, clamassassin, > clamdscan, clamd > > If it is clamdscan, then why does it work from command line and from > Mailman? > > Here is my .procmailrc: > > default=/var/mail/szidikm > LOGFILE=$HOME/mail/proc.log > # > # Call ClamAssassin - scan for viruses > # > :0fw > | /usr/local/bin/clamassassin > > # end MES > ########################### > :0fw: spamc.lock > * < 256000 > | spamc > > > > Thanks, > --- > Mark Szidik > Michigan Library Consortium > 1407 Rensen Street, Suite 1, Lansing, MI 48910-3657 > Ph:800.530.9019 x17 Fax:517.394.2096 > MLC - Partnerships. Solutions. Excellence. > _______________________________________________ > linux-user mailing list > linux-user@egr.msu.edu > http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user > From SzidikM at mlcnet.org Thu Jul 8 16:57:54 2004 From: SzidikM at mlcnet.org (Mark Szidik/mlc) Date: Thu Jul 8 17:02:51 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Procmail problem In-Reply-To: <1089317391.344.7.camel@pc1h.armintl.com> Message-ID: Thanks Bruce and Sean, I was able to fix the problem by updating the Solaris version of ld.so.conf. --- Mark Szidik Michigan Library Consortium 1407 Rensen Street, Suite 1, Lansing, MI 48910-3657 Ph:800.530.9019 x17 Fax:517.394.2096 MLC - Partnerships. Solutions. Excellence. linux-user-bounces@egr.msu.edu wrote on 08/07/2004 04:09:51 PM: > > I am trying to get Clam AV to filter incoming emails. I can run clamdscan > > from the command line and all works fine, but when I seutp procmail to run > > clamdscan I get this error: > > > > ld.so.1: /usr/local/bin/clamdscan: fatal: libgcc_s.so.1: open > > failed: No such file or directory > > Killed > > Where is libgcc_s.so.1 ? (what directory?) > And more important, where does clamdscan think it should be? > Run: "ldd /usr/local/bin/clamdscan" and find out. > Make sure that libgcc_s.so.1 is is the directory clamdscan thinks > it should be. Then see if the directory is listed in: /etc/ld.so.conf > If everything checks out, run ldd on other binaries involved - repeat. > Remember to run ldconfig if you change ld.so.conf. > > - BS > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-user mailing list > linux-user@egr.msu.edu > http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user > From picasso at madflower.com Thu Jul 8 17:15:17 2004 From: picasso at madflower.com (Sean O'Malley) Date: Thu Jul 8 17:15:19 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Procmail problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: whoops that is wht I get for assuming.. on Solaris it is crle -u -l /usr/local/lib On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, Mark Szidik/mlc wrote: > Thanks Bruce and Sean, > > I was able to fix the problem by updating the Solaris version of > ld.so.conf. > > > --- > Mark Szidik > Michigan Library Consortium > 1407 Rensen Street, Suite 1, Lansing, MI 48910-3657 > Ph:800.530.9019 x17 Fax:517.394.2096 > MLC - Partnerships. Solutions. Excellence. > > linux-user-bounces@egr.msu.edu wrote on 08/07/2004 04:09:51 PM: > > > > I am trying to get Clam AV to filter incoming emails. I can run > clamdscan > > > from the command line and all works fine, but when I seutp procmail to > run > > > clamdscan I get this error: > > > > > > ld.so.1: /usr/local/bin/clamdscan: fatal: libgcc_s.so.1: open > > > failed: No such file or directory > > > Killed > > > > Where is libgcc_s.so.1 ? (what directory?) > > And more important, where does clamdscan think it should be? > > Run: "ldd /usr/local/bin/clamdscan" and find out. > > Make sure that libgcc_s.so.1 is is the directory clamdscan thinks > > it should be. Then see if the directory is listed in: /etc/ld.so.conf > > If everything checks out, run ldd on other binaries involved - repeat. > > Remember to run ldconfig if you change ld.so.conf. > > > > - BS > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > linux-user mailing list > > linux-user@egr.msu.edu > > http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user > > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-user mailing list > linux-user@egr.msu.edu > http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user > From SMachaje at grcc.edu Thu Jul 8 22:34:42 2004 From: SMachaje at grcc.edu (Szymon Machajewski) Date: Thu Jul 8 22:35:01 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Open Source education Message-ID: Could anyone share with me any articles about open source in education? At GRCC we are teaching three open source courses: Linux Admin, Apache Security, and PHP/MySQL Web Databases. I am looking for news articles or other sources that would bring up the need for Open Source courses. Also I'm wondering if you could suggest marketing ways for such courses. Thanks for the help. Sincerely, Szymon Machajewski MCSD, RHCT, CNA, MySQL Core Grand Rapids Community College From asenchi at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 23:21:42 2004 From: asenchi at gmail.com (Asenchi) Date: Thu Jul 8 23:21:48 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] meeting tonight In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8d9c091a040708202161e4ac14@mail.gmail.com> ah man... missed this. -- -Asenchi From picasso at madflower.com Thu Jul 8 23:25:40 2004 From: picasso at madflower.com (Sean O'Malley) Date: Thu Jul 8 23:25:43 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Open Source education In-Reply-To: Message-ID: check out www.thejournal.com Do an archive search for "open source" and I came up with 27 articles. On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, Szymon Machajewski wrote: > Could anyone share with me any articles about open source in education? > > At GRCC we are teaching three open source courses: Linux Admin, Apache > Security, and PHP/MySQL Web Databases. > I am looking for news articles or other sources that would bring up the > need for Open Source courses. > Also I'm wondering if you could suggest marketing ways for such > courses. > > Thanks for the help. > > Sincerely, > > Szymon Machajewski MCSD, RHCT, CNA, MySQL Core > Grand Rapids Community College > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-user mailing list > linux-user@egr.msu.edu > http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user > From sbdataspiller at sbcglobal.net Fri Jul 9 00:11:38 2004 From: sbdataspiller at sbcglobal.net (Seth Bembeneck) Date: Fri Jul 9 00:11:44 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Is my email server an open relay? Message-ID: <000001c4656a$d8763220$0a00a8c0@seth> I'm running qmail on a Gentoo system. My ip is dynamic. Some mail is going out, others I'm getting a message about DNSBL when sending to email addresses @sbcglobal.net One of the websites (http://openrbl.org/) listed my current IP as on the list and said this: "IP address 68.79.83.171 is listed here as ameritech.net misc.spam. The misc.spam group is mostly (but not entirely) composed of entire addresses blocks that have a) sent spam here, b) have consecutive or missing reverse dns, and c) have no customer sub-delegation via either the controlling RIR (ARIN, RIPE, LACNIC, APNIC, etc) or an rwhois server referenced in the main RIR records. In particular, 68.79.83.171 has reverse dns of adsl-68-79-83-171.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net. If your domain name does not appear as the last components in any of those reverse dns names, that needs to be fixed first. Any email sent to the address at the top of this page will be ignored until that is fixed. " What does that last paragraph mean? How can I test to see if I'm an open relay? If I am an open relay, How can I make it so that I'm not? I got my domain from easyDNS.com, I didn't have this problem when I used DynDns.org's services for free sub-domain (don't know if this info makes a difference). Any other info that would help? Thanks, Seth -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman-archives/linux-user/attachments/20040709/c4e4e664/attachment.htm From sbdataspiller at sbcglobal.net Fri Jul 9 00:21:36 2004 From: sbdataspiller at sbcglobal.net (Seth Bembeneck) Date: Fri Jul 9 00:21:42 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Is my email server an open relay? (link correction) In-Reply-To: <000001c4656a$d8763220$0a00a8c0@seth> Message-ID: <000a01c4656c$3c8d8f00$0a00a8c0@seth> The link in my last email (http://openrbl.org ) was just to the site that looks at other sites. The site that I got that block of text from is: http://www.five-ten-sg.com/blackhole.php?68.79.83.171 Seth -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman-archives/linux-user/attachments/20040709/8762735b/attachment-0001.htm From asenchi at gmail.com Fri Jul 9 00:28:53 2004 From: asenchi at gmail.com (Asenchi) Date: Fri Jul 9 00:29:33 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Is my email server an open relay? In-Reply-To: <000001c4656a$d8763220$0a00a8c0@seth> References: <000001c4656a$d8763220$0a00a8c0@seth> Message-ID: <8d9c091a040708212865e20467@mail.gmail.com> More than likely it is an irresponsible rbl that is just blocking entire blocks of ip addresses. Most cable providers suffer from this, and unfortunately their users do as well. -- -Asenchi From plhofmei at antiochcomputerconsulting.com Fri Jul 9 00:37:28 2004 From: plhofmei at antiochcomputerconsulting.com (Phillip Hofmeister) Date: Fri Jul 9 00:37:32 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Is my email server an open relay? In-Reply-To: <000001c4656a$d8763220$0a00a8c0@seth> References: <000001c4656a$d8763220$0a00a8c0@seth> Message-ID: <20040709043728.GA14093@antiochcomputerconsulting.com> To the question: are you an open relay: plhofmei@Oneill:~$ telnet 68.79.83.171 25 Trying 68.79.83.171... Connected to 68.79.83.171. Escape character is '^]'. 220 cwhq.net ESMTP HELO hi.com 250 cwhq.net MAIL FROM: 250 ok RCPT TO: 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1) any SMTP connections from 65.73.148.231 was me testing to see if you are an open relay. Please disregard these connections. On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 at 12:11:38AM -0400, Seth Bembeneck wrote: > I'm running qmail on a Gentoo system. > > My ip is dynamic. > > > > Some mail is going out, others I'm getting a message about DNSBL when > sending to email addresses @sbcglobal.net > > > > > > One of the websites (http://openrbl.org/) listed my current IP as on the > list and said this: > > > > "IP address 68.79.83.171 is listed here as ameritech.net misc.spam. > > The misc.spam group is mostly (but not entirely) composed of entire > addresses blocks that have a) sent spam here, b) have consecutive or missing > reverse dns, and c) have no customer sub-delegation via either the > controlling RIR (ARIN, RIPE, LACNIC, APNIC, etc) or an rwhois server > referenced in the main RIR records. > > In particular, 68.79.83.171 has reverse dns of > adsl-68-79-83-171.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net. If your domain name does not > appear as the last components in any of those reverse dns names, that needs > to be fixed first. Any email sent to the address at the top of this page > will be ignored until that is fixed. " > > What does that last paragraph mean? > > > > How can I test to see if I'm an open relay? > > > > If I am an open relay, How can I make it so that I'm not? > > > > I got my domain from easyDNS.com, I didn't have this problem when I used > DynDns.org's services for free sub-domain (don't know if this info makes a > difference). > > > > Any other info that would help? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Seth > > _______________________________________________ > linux-user mailing list > linux-user@egr.msu.edu > http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user -- Phillip Hofmeister PGP/GPG Key: http://www.zionlth.org/~plhofmei/ wget -O - http://www.zionlth.org/~plhofmei/key.asc | gpg --import From clay at lazarusid.com Fri Jul 9 01:33:47 2004 From: clay at lazarusid.com (Clay Dowling) Date: Fri Jul 9 00:52:43 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Open Source education In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3893.192.168.1.3.1089351227.squirrel@mail.lazarusid.com> Szymon Machajewski said: > Could anyone share with me any articles about open source in education? > > At GRCC we are teaching three open source courses: Linux Admin, Apache > Security, and PHP/MySQL Web Databases. > I am looking for news articles or other sources that would bring up the > need for Open Source courses. > Also I'm wondering if you could suggest marketing ways for such > courses. It might be worth your while to take a look at the server and operating that's dominated the Netcraft server rankings for several years now. Linux/Apache/PHP are dominating. Unfortunately you can't use job figures for your advertising. Employment opportunities in Michigan focus more on Microsoft technology or Java. in other words, it's great that you're offering these classes, but you aren't really setting your students up for career success based on current trends. At least in Michigan, advertised job vacancies for those skills are few and far between, with laughable pay scales. If you want those classes to be relevant to your students after school, you'd better pair them with some courses in Entrepreneurship and Small Business Finance. That's how they're going to have to make their money. Clay -- Lazarus Notes from Lazarus Internet Development http://www.lazarusid.com/notes/ Articles, Reviews and Commentary on web development From DaveRogers at stockalerts.com Fri Jul 9 02:49:22 2004 From: DaveRogers at stockalerts.com (Dave Rogers) Date: Fri Jul 9 02:44:20 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Open Source education In-Reply-To: <3893.192.168.1.3.1089351227.squirrel@mail.lazarusid.com> References: <3893.192.168.1.3.1089351227.squirrel@mail.lazarusid.com> Message-ID: <40EE3FF2.2030902@StockAlerts.com> Here's an article you may find interesting: http://www.python.org/workshops/2000-01/proceedings/papers/elkner/pyYHS.html Now my banter about the first response you got: I live and work in the Lansing area for a 5,000 employee company and I make a respectable (high?) wage doing Webware/Python, Apache, and .Net development. For awhile, I was using only open source tools as a consultant for this large company. Since I performed so well with the open source technology, I got hired on as a F/T employee at a higher wage. Its true that large businesses want to standardize but by educating people in open source technology there's at least a chance down the road that people will embrace it either as they can experience producitivty boosts or once people are put in management positions where they can "allow" open source technology to be used. I've also noticed that most mid-sized and small companies are more focused on "getting something that works". They aren't so concerned about the technology used and can still pay a respectable wage (at worst for consulting). I still code in Python almost everyday. Now all we need is to get people to embrace Object Relational Mappers... but that's another story. Dave Clay Dowling wrote: >Szymon Machajewski said: > > >>Could anyone share with me any articles about open source in education? >> >>At GRCC we are teaching three open source courses: Linux Admin, Apache >>Security, and PHP/MySQL Web Databases. >>I am looking for news articles or other sources that would bring up the >>need for Open Source courses. >>Also I'm wondering if you could suggest marketing ways for such >>courses. >> >> > >It might be worth your while to take a look at the server and operating >that's dominated the Netcraft server rankings for several years now. >Linux/Apache/PHP are dominating. > >Unfortunately you can't use job figures for your advertising. Employment >opportunities in Michigan focus more on Microsoft technology or Java. in >other words, it's great that you're offering these classes, but you aren't >really setting your students up for career success based on current >trends. At least in Michigan, advertised job vacancies for those skills >are few and far between, with laughable pay scales. If you want those >classes to be relevant to your students after school, you'd better pair >them with some courses in Entrepreneurship and Small Business Finance. >That's how they're going to have to make their money. > >Clay > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman-archives/linux-user/attachments/20040709/4c3b6631/attachment.htm From clay at lazarusid.com Fri Jul 9 09:49:50 2004 From: clay at lazarusid.com (Clay Dowling) Date: Fri Jul 9 09:08:44 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Is my email server an open relay? In-Reply-To: <000001c4656a$d8763220$0a00a8c0@seth> References: <000001c4656a$d8763220$0a00a8c0@seth> Message-ID: <4112.192.168.1.3.1089380990.squirrel@mail.lazarusid.com> Seth Bembeneck said: > I'm running qmail on a Gentoo system. > > My ip is dynamic. Seth, That's your problem right there. Dynamic IP addresses are blocked from sending to a large number of domains, and sbc is one of them. That's better than it used to be. For quite a while the Ameritech ISP would only accept mail from a white list of servers. Clay -- Lazarus Notes from Lazarus Internet Development http://www.lazarusid.com/notes/ Articles, Reviews and Commentary on web development From junus at mail.lib.msu.edu Fri Jul 9 09:27:34 2004 From: junus at mail.lib.msu.edu (Junus, Ranti) Date: Fri Jul 9 09:27:36 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Open Source education Message-ID: <9ADF6F1B8F159448A143DC39FBA9F1EC045C2F6B@mail.lib.msu.edu> You might also want to check the WebJunction (http://www.webjunction.org) This online community is geared mostly toward school and public libraries, but at least you can see what kind kind of open-source related articles that have been posted there. There are people for whatever reason end up have to deal with open source systems as part of their job responsibilities. -- Ranti Junus > -----Original Message----- > > Could anyone share with me any articles about open source in > education? > > At GRCC we are teaching three open source courses: Linux Admin, Apache > Security, and PHP/MySQL Web Databases. > I am looking for news articles or other sources that would bring up the > need for Open Source courses. > Also I'm wondering if you could suggest marketing ways for such > courses. > > Thanks for the help. > > Sincerely, > > Szymon Machajewski MCSD, RHCT, CNA, MySQL Core > Grand Rapids Community College > From PMelson at sequoianet.com Fri Jul 9 15:13:11 2004 From: PMelson at sequoianet.com (Melson, Paul) Date: Fri Jul 9 15:14:25 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Is my email server an open relay? (link correction) Message-ID: <0FD9D979B9535D4890AE309799B6D1E5883997@lansingemail.seqnt.com> Contact SBC about a customer relay. Most ISP's have at least one configured to allow relay from their dynamic address space (some require SMTP auth). PaulM -----Original Message----- From: Seth Bembeneck [mailto:sbdataspiller@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 12:22 AM To: 'GGLUG' Subject: RE: [GLLUG] Is my email server an open relay? (link correction) The link in my last email (http://openrbl.org) was just to the site that looks at other sites. The site that I got that block of text from is: http://www.five-ten-sg.com/blackhole.php?68.79.83.171 Seth From sbdataspiller at sbcglobal.net Fri Jul 9 18:15:01 2004 From: sbdataspiller at sbcglobal.net (Seth Bembeneck) Date: Fri Jul 9 18:15:08 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Is my email server an open relay? (link correction) In-Reply-To: <0FD9D979B9535D4890AE309799B6D1E5883997@lansingemail.seqnt.com> Message-ID: <000001c46602$30d723b0$0a00a8c0@seth> I'm trying to get qmail mail all the email though the smtp server that my email account uses (smtp.sbcglobal.yahoo.com), which requires authentication. I have it to the point where it is trying to authenticate, but I get this error: "@4000000040ef0879289cef3c delivery 23: deferral: Connected_to_66.163.171.137_but_authentication_was_rejected_(username)./Remo te_host_said:_501_malformed_auth_input_(#5.5.4)/" My username for the smtp contains the @ I have this in my smtproutes file: :smtp.sbcglobal.yahoo.com username password Is this the correct way to pass the username and password? Thanks, Seth -----Original Message----- From: Melson, Paul [mailto:PMelson@sequoianet.com] Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 3:13 PM To: Seth Bembeneck; GGLUG Subject: RE: [GLLUG] Is my email server an open relay? (link correction) Contact SBC about a customer relay. Most ISP's have at least one configured to allow relay from their dynamic address space (some require SMTP auth). PaulM -----Original Message----- From: Seth Bembeneck [mailto:sbdataspiller@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 12:22 AM To: 'GGLUG' Subject: RE: [GLLUG] Is my email server an open relay? (link correction) The link in my last email (http://openrbl.org) was just to the site that looks at other sites. The site that I got that block of text from is: http://www.five-ten-sg.com/blackhole.php?68.79.83.171 Seth From c.tower at express56.com Sat Jul 10 13:40:27 2004 From: c.tower at express56.com (Chick Tower) Date: Sat Jul 10 13:40:14 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Re: Open Source Education In-Reply-To: <200407090422.i694M8IE004555@egr.msu.edu> References: <200407090422.i694M8IE004555@egr.msu.edu> Message-ID: <1089418486.2194.5.camel@AMD2003> On Thu, 2004-07-08 at 23:34, Szymon Machajewski wrote: > Could anyone share with me any articles about open source in education? > > At GRCC we are teaching three open source courses: Linux Admin, Apache > Security, and PHP/MySQL Web Databases. > I am looking for news articles or other sources that would bring up the > need for Open Source courses. > Also I'm wondering if you could suggest marketing ways for such > courses. > > Thanks for the help. > > Sincerely, > > Szymon Machajewski MCSD, RHCT, CNA, MySQL Core > Grand Rapids Community College Check out http://linuxtoday.com/. They sometimes have articles about how Linux is being used in education. Chick Tower From sbdataspiller at sbcglobal.net Sat Jul 10 23:03:02 2004 From: sbdataspiller at sbcglobal.net (Seth Bembeneck) Date: Sat Jul 10 23:03:07 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Is my email server an open relay? Update In-Reply-To: <000001c46602$30d723b0$0a00a8c0@seth> Message-ID: <000001c466f3$94cb3d10$0a00a8c0@seth> I talked to sbc, According to them, they aren't blocking any thing for domain (cwhq.net). They wondered if the place I got my domain from could be doing some thing. I got my domain from easydns.com, with dynamic ip updating enabled. Any thoughts on this? Currently, I'm trying to route all mail through smtp.sbcglobal.yahoo.com But I can't get authentication and I'm wondering if it is because my username has "@" in the middle. See my last post for details. Any more ideas?? Thanks, Seth From plhofmei at antiochcomputerconsulting.com Sat Jul 10 23:21:10 2004 From: plhofmei at antiochcomputerconsulting.com (Phillip Hofmeister) Date: Sat Jul 10 23:21:15 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Is my email server an open relay? Update In-Reply-To: <000001c466f3$94cb3d10$0a00a8c0@seth> References: <000001c46602$30d723b0$0a00a8c0@seth> <000001c466f3$94cb3d10$0a00a8c0@seth> Message-ID: <20040711032110.GA1770@antiochcomputerconsulting.com> The problem here I believe is that SBC has your IP categorized in a dynamic IP block. Or the foreign email server has denoted your IP block as one that produces large amounts of spam. Given that, the problem is with the remote SMTP host and they policies they have implemented. HTH On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 at 11:03:02PM -0400, Seth Bembeneck wrote: > > I talked to sbc, According to them, they aren't blocking any thing for > domain (cwhq.net). > > They wondered if the place I got my domain from could be doing some > thing. I got my domain from easydns.com, with dynamic ip updating > enabled. Any thoughts on this? > > Currently, I'm trying to route all mail through smtp.sbcglobal.yahoo.com > But I can't get authentication and I'm wondering if it is because my > username has "@" in the middle. See my last post for details. > > Any more ideas?? > > Thanks, > > Seth > > _______________________________________________ > linux-user mailing list > linux-user@egr.msu.edu > http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user -- Phillip Hofmeister PGP/GPG Key: http://www.zionlth.org/~plhofmei/ wget -O - http://www.zionlth.org/~plhofmei/key.asc | gpg --import From hearntho at msu.edu Sat Jul 10 23:55:06 2004 From: hearntho at msu.edu (Thomas Alan Hearn) Date: Sat Jul 10 23:55:09 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] RH and Mandrake install problems Message-ID: Fellow Gllugers, I'm having some problems installing RH FC2 as well as Mandrake 10, as soon as I boot from the CD and I get to the intro screen (mandrake intro or redhat intro), I hit enter to run through the install and my computer simply reboots, no error messages, beeps, sounds, or anything, and goes right back through the same process. BIOS is set properly for everything as far as I can tell, any ideas? Cheers, Tom Specs: 2.8Mhz Celeron 512 Ram 64MB integrated graphics 80gig HD and 60gig HD, both IDE From plhofmei at antiochcomputerconsulting.com Sun Jul 11 08:33:25 2004 From: plhofmei at antiochcomputerconsulting.com (Phillip Hofmeister) Date: Sun Jul 11 08:33:30 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] RH and Mandrake install problems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040711123325.GA26091@antiochcomputerconsulting.com> On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 at 11:55:06PM -0400, Thomas Alan Hearn wrote: > Fellow Gllugers, > I'm having some problems installing RH FC2 as well as Mandrake 10, as soon > as I boot from the CD and I get to the intro screen (mandrake intro or > redhat intro), I hit enter to run through the install and my computer > simply reboots, no error messages, beeps, sounds, or anything, and goes > right back through the same process. BIOS is set properly for everything > as far as I can tell, any ideas? Just a shot off the deep-end: The installer could find no VGA Driver or the VGA Driver it decided to use caused a memory exception and caused your system to reboot. You could try a Debian install, it is plain-text/n-curses only.... HTH -- Phillip Hofmeister PGP/GPG Key: http://www.zionlth.org/~plhofmei/ wget -O - http://www.zionlth.org/~plhofmei/key.asc | gpg --import From sbdataspiller at sbcglobal.net Sun Jul 11 09:16:48 2004 From: sbdataspiller at sbcglobal.net (Seth Bembeneck) Date: Sun Jul 11 09:16:52 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Is my email server an open relay? Update In-Reply-To: <000001c466f3$94cb3d10$0a00a8c0@seth> Message-ID: <000001c46749$52a47680$0a00a8c0@seth> Ok, I got it. I can now send email through smtp.sbcglobal.yahoo.com After some research, I found out that if the auth type is login, the data is base64 encoded. So I wrote a quick php script the echoed out my user name and password in base64 and added that to /var/qmail/control/smtproutes in the form of :smtp.sbcglobal.yahoo.com username password Restarted qmail, every thing looks like it works now. FYI the page I got this base64 info is http://www.fehcom.de/qmail/smtpauth.html Specifically under Authentication Framework Thanks for all your help! Seth -----Original Message----- From: linux-user-bounces@egr.msu.edu [mailto:linux-user-bounces@egr.msu.edu] On Behalf Of Seth Bembeneck Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 11:03 PM To: 'GGLUG' Subject: RE: [GLLUG] Is my email server an open relay? Update I talked to sbc, According to them, they aren't blocking any thing for domain (cwhq.net). They wondered if the place I got my domain from could be doing some thing. I got my domain from easydns.com, with dynamic ip updating enabled. Any thoughts on this? Currently, I'm trying to route all mail through smtp.sbcglobal.yahoo.com But I can't get authentication and I'm wondering if it is because my username has "@" in the middle. See my last post for details. Any more ideas?? Thanks, Seth _______________________________________________ linux-user mailing list linux-user@egr.msu.edu http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user From exfed at hotmail.com Sun Jul 11 14:45:25 2004 From: exfed at hotmail.com (Ex Fed) Date: Sun Jul 11 14:45:28 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Linux File / Directory Permissions Message-ID: How can I set all subdirectories of a specific directory as executible for User, Group or OTHER and leave the files in these sub directories as not executible? Lee _________________________________________________________________ MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access helps fight spam and pop-ups – now 2 months FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ From blp at cs.stanford.edu Sun Jul 11 15:08:35 2004 From: blp at cs.stanford.edu (Ben Pfaff) Date: Sun Jul 11 15:08:36 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Linux File / Directory Permissions In-Reply-To: (Ex Fed's message of "Sun, 11 Jul 2004 18:45:25 +0000") References: Message-ID: <87oemm1hvw.fsf@benpfaff.org> "Ex Fed" writes: > How can I set all subdirectories of a specific directory as executible > for User, Group or OTHER and leave the files in these sub directories > as not executible? This is a confusing question. Directories are not really executable; for a directory, the "executable" bit controls whether files and directory in the subdirectory can be accessed by name. However, I think you might be looking for something like this: for d in dir/*; do test -d "$d" && chmod -- 0755 "$d"; done That's untested, but I think it does what you asked for. Or maybe you really want find dir -type d -exec chmod -- 0755 '{}' \; -- "Then, I came to my senses, and slunk away, hoping no one overheard my thinking." --Steve McAndrewSmith in the Monastery From sbdataspiller at sbcglobal.net Sun Jul 11 18:11:22 2004 From: sbdataspiller at sbcglobal.net (Seth Bembeneck) Date: Sun Jul 11 18:11:25 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] My qmail server - Client side Message-ID: <000001c46794$0070cdf0$0a00a8c0@seth> As my last email said, the qmail server seems to be working perfectly in sending/receiving mail. Now I'm trying to configure Outlook to connect to the server to send and retrieve the email. I'm following the qmail howto in the document section at gentoo.org It doesn't seem to be authenticating. What is the username format for virtual domains using vpopmail? What do I check to make sure things are set correctly? Thanks, Seth Qmail learner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman-archives/linux-user/attachments/20040711/9a34f948/attachment.htm From clay at lazarusid.com Sun Jul 11 19:17:55 2004 From: clay at lazarusid.com (Clay Dowling) Date: Sun Jul 11 19:16:35 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] RH and Mandrake install problems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40F1CAA3.8040209@lazarusid.com> Thomas Alan Hearn wrote: > Fellow Gllugers, > I'm having some problems installing RH FC2 as well as Mandrake 10, as > soon as I boot from the CD and I get to the intro screen (mandrake intro > or redhat intro), I hit enter to run through the install and my computer > simply reboots, no error messages, beeps, sounds, or anything, and goes > right back through the same process. BIOS is set properly for > everything as far as I can tell, any ideas? When I had this same problem, I found that my CD burn was bad. It looked okay on the surface of things and mounted fine, but had troubles booting. Burning my ISO images right after rebooting solved the problem. I went a little too cheap on my mother board, and get occasional strange problems with the IDE controller, especially when dealing with the CDR drive. Clay -- http://www.lazarusid.com/notes/ Lazarus Notes Articles and Commentary on Web Development From brad at mtsdev.com Sun Jul 11 22:27:19 2004 From: brad at mtsdev.com (Brad Fears) Date: Sun Jul 11 22:29:10 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] My qmail server - Client side In-Reply-To: <000001c46794$0070cdf0$0a00a8c0@seth> References: <000001c46794$0070cdf0$0a00a8c0@seth> Message-ID: <3146.35.12.26.90.1089599239.squirrel@netbootie> First, you might check your logs for anything obvious. Depending on the POP server you installed, the logfile location might be in /var/log/qmail/pop3d/current. If you don't see any relevant entries in your 'current' file, make sure it's not a firewall issue. As for authentication, you might try using a % sign rather than an @ sign in your username. (eg. user%domain.com) --Brad Fears > As my last email said, the qmail server seems to be working perfectly in > sending/receiving mail. > > > > Now I'm trying to configure Outlook to connect to the server to send and > retrieve the email. > > > > I'm following the qmail howto in the document section at gentoo.org > > > > It doesn't seem to be authenticating. > > > > What is the username format for virtual domains using vpopmail? > > > > What do I check to make sure things are set correctly? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Seth > > Qmail learner > > _______________________________________________ > linux-user mailing list > linux-user@egr.msu.edu > http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user > From hearntho at msu.edu Mon Jul 12 02:48:31 2004 From: hearntho at msu.edu (Thomas Alan Hearn) Date: Mon Jul 12 02:48:33 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Still having problems Message-ID: I'm still having the problems trying to install both RH FC 2 and Mandrake 10. I tried completely re-downloading the new iso images and burning brand new cds directly after startup as was recommended, and still no avail. I've tried running linux mediacheck, linux askmethod, and linux noprobe, as well as linux nofb, but it still does the same thing, just simply restarts the computer and goes back to where it was. Debian did the same thing. Any other ideas? From mrambo at lsd.k12.mi.us Mon Jul 12 06:51:52 2004 From: mrambo at lsd.k12.mi.us (Mike Rambo) Date: Mon Jul 12 06:53:46 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Still having problems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1089629512.2868.3.camel@mrambo.imcdomain.local> On Mon, 2004-07-12 at 02:48, Thomas Alan Hearn wrote: > I'm still having the problems trying to install both RH FC 2 and Mandrake > 10. > > I tried completely re-downloading the new iso images and burning brand new > cds directly after startup as was recommended, and still no avail. > > I've tried running linux mediacheck, linux askmethod, and linux noprobe, as > well as linux nofb, but it still does the same thing, just simply restarts > the computer and goes back to where it was. > > Debian did the same thing. > Did you try 'linux text'? That at least used for force a text mode install on redhat type distros. -- Mike Rambo mrambo@lsd.k12.mi.us Hurry! Hire a teenager while they still know everything!!! From gholbrook at digitalintuition.com Mon Jul 12 08:42:34 2004 From: gholbrook at digitalintuition.com (Gary Holbrook) Date: Mon Jul 12 08:44:32 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Still having problems References: Message-ID: <005401c4680d$b68d3eb0$8a00a8c0@OFFICE.LOCAL> I haven't followed this thread, so I apologize if someone covered this already. Have you tried updating your BIOS, or disabling some kernel features when you boot and install? ACPI comes to mind, although I would be surprised to find it in the installer kernel. The reason I mention this is that I've had some pretty funky PC install problems related to ACPI code when installing windows. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Alan Hearn" To: "GLLUG" Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 2:48 AM Subject: [GLLUG] Still having problems > I'm still having the problems trying to install both RH FC 2 and Mandrake > 10. > > I tried completely re-downloading the new iso images and burning brand new > cds directly after startup as was recommended, and still no avail. > > I've tried running linux mediacheck, linux askmethod, and linux noprobe, as > well as linux nofb, but it still does the same thing, just simply restarts > the computer and goes back to where it was. > > Debian did the same thing. > > Any other ideas? > > _______________________________________________ > linux-user mailing list > linux-user@egr.msu.edu > http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user > From marr at flex.com Mon Jul 12 12:02:56 2004 From: marr at flex.com (Marr) Date: Mon Jul 12 12:05:10 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Linux USB (and other?) Mailing Lists Down? Message-ID: <200407121202.56357.marr@flex.com> Is anyone out there subscribed to either of the Linux USB mailing lists? Linux-USB-Users or Linux-USB-Devel It seems that both lists are down, but I cannot find anything about it on the 'net other than the archives, which seem to confirm that traffic has halted. The Sourceforge 'Site Status' shows the 'Mailing List Service' as being 'Online'. Any ideas what's up? Is this affecting the other xxx@lists.sourceforge.net mailing lists too? TIA.... P.S. Sorry for the cross-posting -- I wanted to get a wider sampling if possible. Bill Marr From picasso at madflower.com Mon Jul 12 12:39:45 2004 From: picasso at madflower.com (Sean O'Malley) Date: Mon Jul 12 12:39:49 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Linux USB (and other?) Mailing Lists Down? In-Reply-To: <200407121202.56357.marr@flex.com> Message-ID: I just got something from linux-usb-users but there was a pretty big gap between the dates/times of the messages. My guess is that it was down for a while and it is just coming back online. On Mon, 12 Jul 2004, Marr wrote: > Is anyone out there subscribed to either of the Linux USB mailing lists? > > Linux-USB-Users or Linux-USB-Devel > > It seems that both lists are down, but I cannot find anything about it on the > 'net other than the archives, which seem to confirm that traffic has halted. > The Sourceforge 'Site Status' shows the 'Mailing List Service' as being > 'Online'. > > Any ideas what's up? > > Is this affecting the other xxx@lists.sourceforge.net mailing lists too? > > TIA.... > > P.S. Sorry for the cross-posting -- I wanted to get a wider sampling if > possible. > > Bill Marr > > _______________________________________________ > linux-user mailing list > linux-user@egr.msu.edu > http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user > From marr at flex.com Mon Jul 12 15:08:31 2004 From: marr at flex.com (Marr) Date: Mon Jul 12 15:10:43 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Linux USB (and other?) Mailing Lists Down? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200407121508.31467.marr@flex.com> On Monday 12 July 2004 12:39pm, Sean O'Malley wrote: > I just got something from linux-usb-users but there was a pretty big gap > between the dates/times of the messages. My guess is that it was down for > a while and it is just coming back online. You're right. It does seem to be coming online now and my outbound email to those lists is now making it out and back to me. Thx! Bill Marr From rrclark at rrclark.net Tue Jul 13 00:21:59 2004 From: rrclark at rrclark.net (Rich Clark) Date: Tue Jul 13 00:22:04 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Still having problems In-Reply-To: <005401c4680d$b68d3eb0$8a00a8c0@OFFICE.LOCAL> References: <005401c4680d$b68d3eb0$8a00a8c0@OFFICE.LOCAL> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Jul 2004, Gary Holbrook wrote: > I haven't followed this thread, so I apologize if someone covered this > already. Have you tried updating your BIOS, or disabling some kernel > features when you boot and install? ACPI comes to mind, although I would be > surprised to find it in the installer kernel. > > The reason I mention this is that I've had some pretty funky PC install > problems related to ACPI code when installing windows. I'd say good call. You may also want to question if the memory is not the problem also. I had a stick here that for love nor money would work in any machine I put it in, most running Mandrake 10 Comm on several, and one with Windows XP on it. Needless to say, I returned it. Rich -- "No, I don't want your money, I just want to compete without Microsoft terrorizing us and everyone in the PC business who works with us." -- Michael Robertson, Lindows CEO, in email to Gates & Ballmer, 6/2/04 TINLC Unit #2309 - Death to all spammer accounts. - WWSB? From picasso at madflower.com Tue Jul 13 01:26:19 2004 From: picasso at madflower.com (Sean O'Malley) Date: Tue Jul 13 01:26:22 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Still having problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Jul 2004, Rich Clark wrote: > I'd say good call. You may also want to question if the memory is not the > problem also. I had a stick here that for love nor money would work in > any machine I put it in, most running Mandrake 10 Comm on several, and one > with Windows XP on it. Needless to say, I returned it. If you can, swap slot 1 and slot 2 of your memory around and see if that changes the point at which it is crashing consistantly. If it does then it is most likely bad memory. That should at least eliminate one of the choices in the 'guessing why I hate x86 hardware' game. Does hyperthreading still cause whacky crashes? From hearntho at msu.edu Tue Jul 13 09:38:47 2004 From: hearntho at msu.edu (Thomas Alan Hearn) Date: Tue Jul 13 09:38:49 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] (no subject) Message-ID: Sean, The memory works fine with all other operating systems on the machine, I've installed windows, and even Redhat 9.0 (Shrike) on it, with no problems. Slackware 10 also runs fine, and I may try putting FreeBSD 4.9 on there and see what happens, but still wanna know what is going on with Mandrake and Fedora, because it appears to be the same problem with whatever is causing it in the 2. Tom Sean O'Malley writes: On Tue, 13 Jul 2004, Rich Clark wrote: I'd say good call. You may also want to question if the memory is not the problem also. I had a stick here that for love nor money would work in any machine I put it in, most running Mandrake 10 Comm on several, and one with Windows XP on it. Needless to say, I returned it. If you can, swap slot 1 and slot 2 of your memory around and see if that changes the point at which it is crashing consistantly. If it does then it is most likely bad memory. That should at least eliminate one of the choices in the 'guessing why I hate x86 hardware' game. Does hyperthreading still cause whacky crashes? _______________________________________________ linux-user mailing list linux-user@egr.msu.edu http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user From vincen21 at msu.edu Tue Jul 13 21:10:59 2004 From: vincen21 at msu.edu (Jolyon Michael Vincent) Date: Tue Jul 13 21:11:04 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Re: Open Source education In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sean O'Malley writes: > check out > www.thejournal.com > Do an archive search for "open source" and I came up with 27 articles. > > > On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, Szymon Machajewski wrote: > >> Could anyone share with me any articles about open source in education? >> >> At GRCC we are teaching three open source courses: Linux Admin, Apache >> Security, and PHP/MySQL Web Databases. >> I am looking for news articles or other sources that would bring up the >> need for Open Source courses. >> Also I'm wondering if you could suggest marketing ways for such >> courses. >> >> Thanks for the help. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Szymon Machajewski MCSD, RHCT, CNA, MySQL Core >> Grand Rapids Community College > WWW.BeeFreeway.org Free rhat studying for certs, + many more. Cost of exam isn't included, but gives you ALL the training you'd want for just about anything. From vincen21 at msu.edu Tue Jul 13 21:14:34 2004 From: vincen21 at msu.edu (Jolyon Michael Vincent) Date: Tue Jul 13 21:14:37 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Re: meeting tonight, Thursday July ? 2004 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The subject line should say it all. Could someone fill in the missing numbers? I'm hoping that there will be another meeting before the next full moon. > It's short notice, but it's a meeting tonight at Atmosphere Annealing at > 6:00pm. Bring yourselves and any questions you have. Bring your > computers too, if you so desire. Everyone welcome, regardless of > distribution (*BSD included). > > For a description of the location, see > http://www.gllug.org/mod.php?mod=userpage&menu=18&page_id=18 > > -- > CAUTION: Product will be hot after heating > _______________________________________________ > linux-user mailing list > linux-user@egr.msu.edu > http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user > Use Open Source Software. http://www.gllug.org/ is much better. From hearntho at msu.edu Wed Jul 14 00:31:34 2004 From: hearntho at msu.edu (Thomas Alan Hearn) Date: Wed Jul 14 00:31:37 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Re: Still having problems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Still no go, I tried switching the memory sticks with no luck. Also tried disabling just about everything in the BIOS, USB, IEE1394, Parallel and Serial, and still getting the same problems. Any more ideas? Thanks for all the suggestions so far, Tom Sean O'Malley writes: > It _might_ not be a bad memory issue, but... When the OS loads if say in > the spot where the bad memory is and it never uses it, you won't see any > ill effects. You will get ill effects if it does try to read from it. For > example, if under windows or linux you have say the driver for a car jack > loaded into that part of memory, it doesn't matter because you don't own a > car, thus the OS never tries to utilize the software loaded into that part > of memory. > > If say one day you do want to use your automated carjack, then it will act > flaky. > > Memory is consistantly allocated the same way for every OS at boot > typically, (depending on the system) it will load slot 1, until it > is filled then start with slot 2, etc. So if your your first memory module > is bad but you swap it into the second slot. It changes what data is > being stored in that memory by the OS. Thus it crashes in a different > spot. It only works if you can _consistantly_ get the software to load > identically like off a cd where nothing is changed. > > If the swap, doesn't change anything. You can probably cross that off your > list as a culprit. > > > > On Tue, 13 Jul 2004, Thomas Alan Hearn wrote: > >> Sean, >> The memory works fine with all other operating systems on the machine, I've >> installed windows, and even Redhat 9.0 (Shrike) on it, with no problems. >> Slackware 10 also runs fine?? >> >> Tom >> >> Sean O'Malley writes: >> >> > >> > >> > On Tue, 13 Jul 2004, Rich Clark wrote: >> >> I'd say good call. You may also want to question if the memory is not the >> >> problem also. I had a stick here that for love nor money would work in >> >> any machine I put it in, most running Mandrake 10 Comm on several, and one >> >> with Windows XP on it. Needless to say, I returned it. >> > >> > If you can, swap slot 1 and slot 2 of your memory around and see if that >> > changes the point at which it is crashing consistantly. If it does then it >> > is most likely bad memory. >> > >> > That should at least eliminate one of the choices in the 'guessing why I >> > hate x86 hardware' game. >> > >> > Does hyperthreading still cause whacky crashes? >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > linux-user mailing list >> > linux-user@egr.msu.edu >> > http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user >> > >> >> >> > > From picasso at madflower.com Wed Jul 14 09:36:23 2004 From: picasso at madflower.com (Sean O'Malley) Date: Wed Jul 14 09:36:25 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Re: Still having problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Try putting the IDE controller your cd-rom is on into pio4 mode instead of best available. On Wed, 14 Jul 2004, Thomas Alan Hearn wrote: > Still no go, > I tried switching the memory sticks with no luck. Also tried disabling > just about everything in the BIOS, USB, IEE1394, Parallel and Serial, and > still getting the same problems. > > Any more ideas? > > Thanks for all the suggestions so far, > Tom > > Sean O'Malley writes: > > > It _might_ not be a bad memory issue, but... When the OS loads if say in > > the spot where the bad memory is and it never uses it, you won't see any > > ill effects. You will get ill effects if it does try to read from it. For > > example, if under windows or linux you have say the driver for a car jack > > loaded into that part of memory, it doesn't matter because you don't own a > > car, thus the OS never tries to utilize the software loaded into that part > > of memory. > > > > If say one day you do want to use your automated carjack, then it will act > > flaky. > > > > Memory is consistantly allocated the same way for every OS at boot > > typically, (depending on the system) it will load slot 1, until it > > is filled then start with slot 2, etc. So if your your first memory module > > is bad but you swap it into the second slot. It changes what data is > > being stored in that memory by the OS. Thus it crashes in a different > > spot. It only works if you can _consistantly_ get the software to load > > identically like off a cd where nothing is changed. > > > > If the swap, doesn't change anything. You can probably cross that off your > > list as a culprit. > > > > > > > > On Tue, 13 Jul 2004, Thomas Alan Hearn wrote: > > > >> Sean, > >> The memory works fine with all other operating systems on the machine, I've > >> installed windows, and even Redhat 9.0 (Shrike) on it, with no problems. > >> Slackware 10 also runs fine?? > >> > >> Tom > >> > >> Sean O'Malley writes: > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > On Tue, 13 Jul 2004, Rich Clark wrote: > >> >> I'd say good call. You may also want to question if the memory is not the > >> >> problem also. I had a stick here that for love nor money would work in > >> >> any machine I put it in, most running Mandrake 10 Comm on several, and one > >> >> with Windows XP on it. Needless to say, I returned it. > >> > > >> > If you can, swap slot 1 and slot 2 of your memory around and see if that > >> > changes the point at which it is crashing consistantly. If it does then it > >> > is most likely bad memory. > >> > > >> > That should at least eliminate one of the choices in the 'guessing why I > >> > hate x86 hardware' game. > >> > > >> > Does hyperthreading still cause whacky crashes? > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > linux-user mailing list > >> > linux-user@egr.msu.edu > >> > http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > linux-user mailing list > linux-user@egr.msu.edu > http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user > From harris41 at msu.edu Fri Jul 16 07:38:19 2004 From: harris41 at msu.edu (Scott Harrison) Date: Fri Jul 16 07:38:24 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] free hardware recycling Message-ID: <40F7BE2B.6060606@msu.edu> Free recycling for old zapped circuitry. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5437079/ "Hewlett-Packard Co. and Dell Inc. this week announced free programs to encourage U.S. consumers to recycle toxics-filled computers and electronics." "Consumers can drop off electronics at any Office Depot store between July 18 and Labor Day. The service is limited to one computer system or other electronic device per customer per day. The free, in-store recycling is the first program of its kind in the United States." "Environmental groups, which have long blasted the computer industry for lax recycling efforts, lauded the news. Only about 11 percent of electronics are recycled." "Hundreds of chemicals and metals are used to manufacture technology equipment. Computers alone usually contain lead, cadmium, mercury and flame retardants." From jeffh at smallevolution.com Sun Jul 25 11:31:36 2004 From: jeffh at smallevolution.com (Jeff Hengesbach) Date: Sun Jul 25 11:30:49 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Dell GxPro 2x200MHz PPro up for grabs Message-ID: <1090769496.3107.24.camel@blast.esplot.intcom> Hello All, I've got a Dell GxPro Dual 200MHz P-Pro system that I no long have a use for and don't care to store any longer. It had faithfully served as my linux based server for quite some time - it is in fine working condition. Full Details: Dell Optiplex GxPro Dual 200 MHz Pentium Pro CPU (256KB cache ?) 384MB RAM - all slots full 10GB WD hard drive Onboard NIC - doesn't function PCI Kingston 10/100 NIC works great under linux PCI video card - works fine under linux No CDROM - (System only boots from floppy or HD) Functioning floppy drive. Spare power supply Spare system cooling fan Missing front bay cover. This system wouldn't be worth the shipping cost if sold on eBay. I'll take the first $40 offer or best offer if there aren't any takers at $40. Again, I'm looking for a local pickup since shipping this would nearly dbl the cost - I'm in south Lansing. Please email me off-list jeffh [at] smallevolution. no[junkmail]. com, 517.272.0429 . Regards, Jeff Hengesbach From SzidikM at mlcnet.org Sun Jul 25 16:08:07 2004 From: SzidikM at mlcnet.org (Mark Szidik/mlc) Date: Sun Jul 25 16:15:30 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] OT: Zaurus for sale Message-ID: I have a Zaurus SL-5500 available for sale. Please email me privately if you are interested. Thanks, --- Mark Szidik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman-archives/linux-user/attachments/20040725/6c8f93c7/attachment.htm From dincht at securenym.net Sun Jul 25 22:41:19 2004 From: dincht at securenym.net (Charles Ulrich) Date: Sun Jul 25 22:43:21 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] OT: For Sale, Mac Performa 6200CD Message-ID: <200407260242.i6Q2gwc24861@anon.securenym.net> While we're selling stuff, I've been meaning to offer this to folks in the local area. Apple Macintosh Performa 6200CD Comes with: * keyboard & mouse * 14" monitor * internal 14.4 modem * all original software and manuals plus some * Color StyleWriter printer * upgraded memory from 8MB to 16MB (might go higher, takes 30-pin sticks) It's in very good condition, looks like it's hardly been used. Oddly enough, it didn't run NetBSD last time I looked, but should run a recent version of MkLinux. I can check, if that's a selling point for anyone. A few months ago it was listed on ebay for around $50 but without all the extras. I'll take $45 or so. Pick up only... I live on the west side of Lansing and work in DeWitt. Thanks, Charles Ulrich -- http://bityard.net From eduardo at cesconetto.com Sun Jul 25 22:45:43 2004 From: eduardo at cesconetto.com (eduardo cesconetto) Date: Sun Jul 25 22:51:37 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] OT: For Sale, Mac Performa 6200CD In-Reply-To: <200407260242.i6Q2gwc24861@anon.securenym.net> Message-ID: I have one for sale too: Blue & White Powermac G3 350 704MB RAM 80GB HD 7200RPM 8MB Cache Apple Studio 17" Flat Screen Monitor (also blue) All the original hardware inside Running OS 10.3.4 , 9.2 and Yellow Dog Linux Asking 600 buckz Taking offers On 7/25/04 10:41 PM, "Charles Ulrich" wrote: > > While we're selling stuff, I've been meaning to offer this to folks in the > local area. > > Apple Macintosh Performa 6200CD > > Comes with: > * keyboard & mouse > * 14" monitor > * internal 14.4 modem > * all original software and manuals plus some > * Color StyleWriter printer > * upgraded memory from 8MB to 16MB (might go higher, takes 30-pin sticks) > It's in very good condition, looks like it's hardly been used. Oddly enough, > it didn't run NetBSD last time I looked, but should run a recent version of > MkLinux. I can check, if that's a selling point for anyone. > > A few months ago it was listed on ebay for around $50 but without all the > extras. I'll take $45 or so. Pick up only... I live on the west side of > Lansing and work in DeWitt. > > Thanks, > > Charles Ulrich ________________________________________________________________ $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Data Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Get It Now At www.doteasy.com From sbdataspiller at sbcglobal.net Tue Jul 27 12:02:02 2004 From: sbdataspiller at sbcglobal.net (Seth Bembeneck) Date: Tue Jul 27 12:02:14 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Change text in multiple files Message-ID: <000001c473f3$11f061b0$0a00a8c0@seth> Is there an easy way to change text in lots of files at one time? Specifically, I need to change all references to "index.php" in my php scripts to "home.php" The php files are spread out among several sub-folders. Is this possible?? Thanks, Seth -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman-archives/linux-user/attachments/20040727/c3b7d061/attachment.htm From blp at cs.stanford.edu Tue Jul 27 12:13:20 2004 From: blp at cs.stanford.edu (Ben Pfaff) Date: Tue Jul 27 12:13:13 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Change text in multiple files In-Reply-To: <000001c473f3$11f061b0$0a00a8c0@seth> (Seth Bembeneck's message of "Tue, 27 Jul 2004 12:02:02 -0400") References: <000001c473f3$11f061b0$0a00a8c0@seth> Message-ID: <877jspqvhb.fsf@benpfaff.org> "Seth Bembeneck" writes: > Specifically, I need to change all references to ?index.php? in my php scripts to ?home.php? Something roughly like this: find . -name \*.php -print0 | xargs -0 perl -pe 's/index\.php/home.php/g;' -i.bak -- or if you don't have a huge number of files with weird names: perl -pe 's/index\.php/home.php/g;' -i.bak -- `find . -name \*.php` Then after you make sure it's okay, delete the .bak files. -- "Writing is easy. All you do is sit in front of a typewriter and open a vein." --Walter Smith From clay at lazarusid.com Tue Jul 27 12:20:28 2004 From: clay at lazarusid.com (Clay Dowling) Date: Tue Jul 27 12:17:29 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Change text in multiple files In-Reply-To: <000001c473f3$11f061b0$0a00a8c0@seth> References: <000001c473f3$11f061b0$0a00a8c0@seth> Message-ID: <410680CC.1000908@lazarusid.com> Seth Bembeneck wrote: > Is there an easy way to change text in lots of files at one time? > > > > Specifically, I need to change all references to ?index.php? in my php > scripts to ?home.php? > > > > The php files are spread out among several sub-folders. > > > > Is this possible?? highly possible using perl and the substitution functions. There are probably command line methods as well, but when I've had to do this in the past I used perl. Clay -- http://www.lazarusid.com/notes/ Lazarus Notes Articles and Commentary on Web Development From szumlins at mac.com Tue Jul 27 12:44:58 2004 From: szumlins at mac.com (Mike Szumlinski) Date: Tue Jul 27 12:45:29 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Change text in multiple files In-Reply-To: <000001c473f3$11f061b0$0a00a8c0@seth> References: <000001c473f3$11f061b0$0a00a8c0@seth> Message-ID: <4BD7CD17-DFEC-11D8-9C3C-000A95D48C30@mac.com> If you have a copy of BBEdit handy for Mac, it'll do it in the Find & Replace menu. Its a lot more elegant and traceable than a command line option, but BBEdit isn't available to everyone. -Mike On Jul 27, 2004, at 12:02 PM, Seth Bembeneck wrote: > Is there an easy way to change text in lots of files at one time? > > ? > > Specifically, I need to change all references to ?index.php? in my php > scripts to ?home.php? > > ? > > The php files are spread out among several sub-folders. > > ? > > Is this possible?? > > ? > > ? > > Thanks, > > ? > > Seth > _______________________________________________ > linux-user mailing list > linux-user@egr.msu.edu > http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1593 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman-archives/linux-user/attachments/20040727/861d30a7/attachment.bin From dpk at egr.msu.edu Tue Jul 27 13:40:29 2004 From: dpk at egr.msu.edu (dpk) Date: Tue Jul 27 13:40:32 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Change text in multiple files In-Reply-To: <000001c473f3$11f061b0$0a00a8c0@seth> References: <000001c473f3$11f061b0$0a00a8c0@seth> Message-ID: <4106938D.9080303@egr.msu.edu> Seth Bembeneck wrote: > Is there an easy way to change text in lots of files at one time? > > > > Specifically, I need to change all references to "index.php" in my php > scripts to "home.php" > > > > The php files are spread out among several sub-folders. > > > > Is this possible?? find /path/to/dir -name '*.php' \ -exec perl -pi.bak -e 's/index\.php/home\.php/g;' {} \; Note: this will create a backup of the file with the extension .bak incase that isn't really what you wanted to do. dpk From brad at mtsdev.com Tue Jul 27 15:43:29 2004 From: brad at mtsdev.com (Brad Fears) Date: Tue Jul 27 15:43:34 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Change text in multiple files In-Reply-To: <000001c473f3$11f061b0$0a00a8c0@seth> References: <000001c473f3$11f061b0$0a00a8c0@seth> Message-ID: <3631.162.108.2.221.1090957409.squirrel@netbootie> Strange coincidence, but I happen to see this utility on the news yesterday. http://www.rootprompt.org/article.php3?article=7349 --Brad Fears > Is there an easy way to change text in lots of files at one time? > > > > Specifically, I need to change all references to "index.php" in my php > scripts to "home.php" > > > > The php files are spread out among several sub-folders. > > > > Is this possible?? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Seth > > _______________________________________________ > linux-user mailing list > linux-user@egr.msu.edu > http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user > From sbdataspiller at sbcglobal.net Tue Jul 27 13:04:33 2004 From: sbdataspiller at sbcglobal.net (Seth Bembeneck) Date: Tue Jul 27 16:39:14 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Change text in multiple files In-Reply-To: <877jspqvhb.fsf@benpfaff.org> Message-ID: <000801c473fb$d1b21130$0a00a8c0@seth> Thanks, Just ran it on a back up of my files and it looks like it ran perfectly. Seth -----Original Message----- From: Ben Pfaff [mailto:blp@benpfaff.org] On Behalf Of Ben Pfaff Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 12:13 PM To: Seth Bembeneck Cc: 'GGLUG' Subject: Re: [GLLUG] Change text in multiple files "Seth Bembeneck" writes: > Specifically, I need to change all references to "index.php" in my php scripts to "home.php" Something roughly like this: find . -name \*.php -print0 | xargs -0 perl -pe 's/index\.php/home.php/g;' -i.bak -- or if you don't have a huge number of files with weird names: perl -pe 's/index\.php/home.php/g;' -i.bak -- `find . -name \*.php` Then after you make sure it's okay, delete the .bak files. -- "Writing is easy. All you do is sit in front of a typewriter and open a vein." --Walter Smith From sbdataspiller at sbcglobal.net Wed Jul 28 23:23:55 2004 From: sbdataspiller at sbcglobal.net (Seth Bembeneck) Date: Wed Jul 28 23:23:59 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Apache virtual servers Message-ID: <000001c4751b$7adc9620$0a00a8c0@seth> I have had virtual servers running fine for a while now, but lately I have been experiencing some problems. For example: The url's http://cwhq.net and www.cwhq.net don't seem to work in IE. But when used in Mozilla Firefox, they work fine. I have on the cwhq.net server, a re-direction service. It takes long urls (http://blah.com/userblah/blah/m.html) and allows you to instead to userblah.cwhq.net An example of one of these is god.cwhq.net, which works, even though it goes to the same place as http://cwhq.net and www.cwhq.net What is going on? Here is my vhosts.conf file: NameVirtualHost *:* ServerName sdbnetworks.net DocumentRoot "/www/htdocs/" ServerName dfstats.cwhq.net VirtualDocumentRoot "/www/htdocs/dfstats/" ServerName shwsquad.cwhq.net ServerAlias www.shwsquad.cwhq.net shwsquad.cwhq.net DocumentRoot "/www/htdocs/shw/" ServerName icihost.cwhq.net DocumentRoot /www/htdocs/zp ServerName cwhq.net ServerAlias www.cwhq.net cwhq.net ServerAlias *.cwhq.net cwhq.net DocumentRoot "/www/htdocs/cw/" Also, how do I set up dynamic virtual servers where all I need to do is make a folder named for example /www/hosts/mynet.cwhq.net? I read in the documentation about the dynamic virtual servers but it really didn't make much sense. Thanks, Seth -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman-archives/linux-user/attachments/20040728/e7698e41/attachment.htm From clay at lazarusid.com Thu Jul 29 06:48:12 2004 From: clay at lazarusid.com (Clay Dowling) Date: Thu Jul 29 06:44:55 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Apache virtual servers In-Reply-To: <000001c4751b$7adc9620$0a00a8c0@seth> References: <000001c4751b$7adc9620$0a00a8c0@seth> Message-ID: <4108D5EC.7010305@lazarusid.com> Seth Bembeneck wrote: > I have had virtual servers running fine for a while now, but lately I > have been experiencing some problems. > > For example: > > The url?s http://cwhq.net and www.cwhq.net > don?t seem to work in IE. But when used in > Mozilla Firefox, they work fine. > > I have on the cwhq.net server, a re-direction service. It takes long > urls (http://blah.com/userblah/blah/m.html) and allows you to instead to > userblah.cwhq.net > > An example of one of these is god.cwhq.net, which works, even though it > goes to the same place as http://cwhq.net and > www.cwhq.net > > What is going on? What's going on is that your DNS records are broken. You have no A record for cwhq.net, only www.cwhq.net. You have a redirect for www.cwhq.net that sends the following header: Location: http://cwhq.net/home.php The miracle is that you got any browser at all to see your site. If the folks at Mozilla hadn't taken precautions to assume that a lot of people would engage in this sort of broken behavior, you wouldn't be seeing anything. Set up your DNS records properly, and consider leaving the redirect alone, or setting it up to better match your reality. As for dynamic virtual servers, I think you should hold off until you can figure out this problem a little better. Last time I used the dynamic servers, some pretty interesting curve balls were thrown my way (SERVER_ROOT returns interesting, not to say useful, values). Clay Dowling -- http://www.lazarusid.com/notes/ Lazarus Notes Articles and Commentary on Web Development From SzidikM at mlcnet.org Thu Jul 29 14:00:57 2004 From: SzidikM at mlcnet.org (Mark Szidik/mlc) Date: Thu Jul 29 14:08:52 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Python+Zope+Plone consultant Message-ID: Anyone know of a local Python/Zope/Plone guru? One of my members is looking at implementing Plone and they want a local consultant. Thanks, --- Mark Szidik Michigan Library Consortium 1407 Rensen Street, Suite 1, Lansing, MI 48910-3657 Ph:800.530.9019 x17 Fax:517.394.2096 MLC - Partnerships. Solutions. Excellence. From sbdataspiller at sbcglobal.net Thu Jul 29 16:22:51 2004 From: sbdataspiller at sbcglobal.net (Seth Bembeneck) Date: Thu Jul 29 16:24:02 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] Apache virtual servers In-Reply-To: <4108D5EC.7010305@lazarusid.com> Message-ID: <000001c475a9$d5de3950$0a00a8c0@seth> Yep, looks like that was the problem. Thanks -----Original Message----- From: linux-user-bounces@egr.msu.edu [mailto:linux-user-bounces@egr.msu.edu] On Behalf Of Clay Dowling Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 6:48 AM Cc: 'GGLUG' Subject: Re: [GLLUG] Apache virtual servers Seth Bembeneck wrote: > I have had virtual servers running fine for a while now, but lately I > have been experiencing some problems. > > For example: > > The url's http://cwhq.net and www.cwhq.net > don't seem to work in IE. But when used in > Mozilla Firefox, they work fine. > > I have on the cwhq.net server, a re-direction service. It takes long > urls (http://blah.com/userblah/blah/m.html) and allows you to instead to > userblah.cwhq.net > > An example of one of these is god.cwhq.net, which works, even though it > goes to the same place as http://cwhq.net and > www.cwhq.net > > What is going on? What's going on is that your DNS records are broken. You have no A record for cwhq.net, only www.cwhq.net. You have a redirect for www.cwhq.net that sends the following header: Location: http://cwhq.net/home.php The miracle is that you got any browser at all to see your site. If the folks at Mozilla hadn't taken precautions to assume that a lot of people would engage in this sort of broken behavior, you wouldn't be seeing anything. Set up your DNS records properly, and consider leaving the redirect alone, or setting it up to better match your reality. As for dynamic virtual servers, I think you should hold off until you can figure out this problem a little better. Last time I used the dynamic servers, some pretty interesting curve balls were thrown my way (SERVER_ROOT returns interesting, not to say useful, values). Clay Dowling -- http://www.lazarusid.com/notes/ Lazarus Notes Articles and Commentary on Web Development _______________________________________________ linux-user mailing list linux-user@egr.msu.edu http://www.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user From c.tower at express56.com Thu Jul 29 23:18:03 2004 From: c.tower at express56.com (Chick Tower) Date: Thu Jul 29 23:13:56 2004 Subject: [GLLUG] An Amusing Quote In-Reply-To: <200407281600.i6SG0AvR007721@egr.msu.edu> References: <200407281600.i6SG0AvR007721@egr.msu.edu> Message-ID: <1091157480.2290.0.camel@AMD2001> In an essay about great hackers (programmers, not vandals)(full text at http://www.paulgraham.com/gh.html), Paul Graham wrote "I think what a lot of VCs [venture capitalists] are looking for, at least unconsciously, is the next Microsoft. And of course if Microsoft is your model, you shouldn't be looking for companies that hope to win by writing great software." Chick Tower